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the great vegetarian debate - Page 39 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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David N. Snyder
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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:53 pm

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Slow Learner » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:53 pm


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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby appicchato » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:10 pm

For this vegetarian it's a no brainer...if one has the idea to lessen suffering in this life, and can be nourished quite nicely on a multitude of alternatives, why would anyone wish to cause the pain and death of another living being?...is it really necessary to kill our four legged, flying, and finny friends to survive?...to me the answer is no...I believe the Buddha allowed it because he saw, at that critical time, the necessity of getting the fledging Sangha of monks and nuns going, and realized that it might have been too much of a burden on lay support to specify...(and my heart tells me he wasn't a flesh fan)...leading anything approaching a spiritual life dosen't include causing suffering, and death, of our fellow sentients...if I were asked...

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Tex » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:34 pm

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Annapurna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 pm

That sounds like a pleasant attitude to me.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Ben » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:21 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby pilgrim » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:22 am


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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby pilgrim » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:38 am


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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:40 am

Hi pilgrim,

The "pork" view / interpretation can also be seen as a "pro-meat" bias of the situation. Especially when you consider that there is no mention of meat or flesh anywhere in that passage.

In other instances in the Pali Canon I have so far only seen mamsa used in the Pali, for example sukaramamsa (Anguttara Nikaya III. 49) to describe meat or flesh.

We are most likely not going to agree on this and that is fine.
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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:50 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:03 am

x dlete
Last edited by Prasadachitta on Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby pilgrim » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:04 am


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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:05 am

Today I ordered a vegetarian meal at a restaurant as I practice eating vegetarian. A couple sitting next to me got up and left leaving a chicken breast to be thrown away. I reached over and speared the chicken with my fork and added it to my meal. I did not add to the demand for meat I made an effort to conserve resources. Ethical practice does not always need to fit into simple guidelines. :juggling:


Metta

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"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:15 am

Hi pilgrim,

See, I told ya we would not agree on this. :D

There are scholars and respected teachers on both sides of this debate. So there could be some merit in both positions. Neither view can be called or labeled as not being objective or as misrepresentation. Such a label would border on or be an ad hominem. So therefore, there are two primary views on this and as I stated we are not going to agree on this.

I was writing on the last meal in my posts in this thread, not on the Threefold Rule, lay people choosing to eat meat, or any of the other issues related to the vegetarian-meat debates.

If you see my article, I openly admit that I have found one reference and apparently there is only this one reference in the entire Pali Canon where the Buddha eats mamsa (out of pity, to accept the meal), which is clearly flesh / meat. However, there are numerous other references to simple vegetarian / vegan foods, around what appears to be 95 percent of his diet.
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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Vepacitta » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:24 am

I'm just wondering - just wondering mind you - do you really think Anapindika would have served only vegetarian food to the Tathagata - he was very rich - as were other followers of the Buddha who invited him to meals - perhaps they would have served meat to the Buddha? The texts seem to read 'where he was served choice hard and soft foods" without a specific reference as to what foods.

It's just a thought - and NO BIGGIE - not trying to stir the pot here - and there's no way we'll know anyhow unless we can slingshot around the sun and go back in time - but my warp drive ship is in the shop.

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby pilgrim » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:30 am


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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:59 am

Hi pilgrim,

There is no absence of evidence.

Dhammapala, in his commentary to Udana VIII.5, suggests that it refers to young bamboo shoots trampled by pigs (sukarehi maddita-vamsakaliro).

K.E. Neumann, in the preface to his German translation of the Majjhima Nikaya, quotes from an Indian compendium of medicinal plants, the Rajanigantu, several plants beginning with sukara.

Dhammapala is certainly a very respected and credible Pali scholar, writer of many of the Commentaries.

Other suggestions from the Commentaries include: a medicinal plant or yam or tuber (also vegetarian).
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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:06 am

Of interest. There is a foucus is on the Pali texts and early Buddhist history:


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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby poto » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:43 pm


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Ben
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Re: what's wrong with eating meat?

Postby Ben » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:32 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


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