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The first verse of the Dhammapada - Dhamma Wheel

The first verse of the Dhammapada

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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retrofuturist
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The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:15 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:38 am

I think that pali is quite a complex language to translate,
but allot of the translations have the same meaning simply put "we are what we think" others have just expanded on the understandingusing heart, mind, phenomenon, etc
the various different translations shouldn't be disregarded just because they are different or seen as too simple or complex but looked at as a means of deepening our understanding of what the others say!

hold onto a branch too thin it breaks, hold onto a branch too thick you can not grip, hold onto a branch that tapers you can climb out of the tree safely


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:48 am

Greetings Manapa,

You do raise a good point... there is still something to be learned from any translation. My concern as always is about the appropriate grasping of the snake... grabbing it properly so that it does not bite.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:20 pm

I actually learnt allot about metta from looking at different translations of the Sn 1.8 Karaniya Metta Sutta.
I suppose when looking at a translation it is best not to hold the view that one translation is better than another or more accurate!
personally I prefer Bodhi and Thanissaro Bhikkhu but Somas translations to name one are just as good to contemplate on in relation to the other translation as well as on their own!


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby christopher::: » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:22 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Will » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:40 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:12 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Ben
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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:46 am

An excellent topic!
I actually wanted to post an almost identical thread on the Dhammapada verse I am using in my signature.
Rather than hijact this thread, I'll go and start another
Cheers

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

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Element

Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Element » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:04 am

Hi Forum,

For me, this has always been an interesting verse, in the the term 'mano' is used.

I think the verse encompasses both vinnana (experiencing) and citta (thinking), thus the more general or neutral 'mano' is used.

Mind creates all things. Both sense experience and suffering & happiness.

Kind regards,

Element

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Dhammanando » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:20 am


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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:36 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Dhammanando » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:37 pm


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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:01 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

pererin

Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby pererin » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:13 pm

Having no Sanskrit or Pali scholarship I hesitate to venture a comment on this subject, but I have always had a measure of concern about aspects of the translations of Juan Mascaró. Although they are readable and have proved popular, there is little doubt that his love for the literature of the Spanish mystics, notably Juan de la Cruz (on whom he lectured at Cambridge University), has influenced him; and his translation of the Upanishads draws on terminology which perhaps makes more sense in a Christian context and which, for me, raises important questions about his approach to the texts he translated for English-speaking audiences.

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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:39 pm


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Re: The first verse of the Dhammapada

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:33 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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