Pratyutpanna Sutra

Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby sinweiy » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:49 am

The Pratyutpanna Sutra (also Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra, lit. "The Samadhi of being in the presence of all the Buddhas"/Simplified Chinese 佛说般舟三昧经 ) is an early Mahayana Buddhist scripture, which probably originated around the 1st century BCE in the Gandhara area of northwestern India.

The Pratyutpanna Sutra was first translated into Chinese by the Kushan Buddhist monk Lokaksema between 178 and 189 CE, at the Han capital of Loyang. This translation is, together with the Prajnaparamita Sutra, one of the earliest historically datable texts of the Mahayana tradition.

The Pratyutpanna Sutra contains the first known mentions of the Buddha Amitabha and his Pure Land, said to be at the origin of Pure Land practice in China:
"Bodhisattvas hear about the Buddha Amitabha and call him to mind again and again in this land. Because of this calling to mind, they see the Buddha Amitabha. Having seen him they ask him what dharmas it takes to be born in the realm of the Buddha Amitabha. Then the Buddha Amitabha says to these bodhisattvas: 'If you wish to come and be born in my realm, you must always call me to mind again and again, you must always keep this thought in mind without letting up, and thus you will succeed in coming to be born in my realm." Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra, translated by Jeff Wilson.

Pratyutpanna samadhi

The full practice developed by Zhiyi is 90 days long.[1] Lay practitioners often take a much shorter time. Any practice that exceeds one day requires a bystander called a dharma protector (護法) to look after the practitioner. The exercise includes constant walking or praying to Amitabha, sometimes accompanying or helped by the bystander. The practioner should avoid sitting, laying, resting or sleeping during the period of practice. The bystander would warn the practitioner if he or she engages in prolonged resting. Very few Buddhists practice this. Yinkuang (印光) suggested that people should practice the much easier recitation of name of the Buddha nianfo instead.[2] But some buddhists have said that they feel healthier after the practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyutpanna_Sutra
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Huifeng » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:00 am

Not to mention that this sutra was one of the basic texts for the practice at Mt Lu of Master Huiyuan and his Lotus Society around the year 400.

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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Will » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:09 am

Here is Harrison's translation, bound together with the Surangama-Samadhi Sutra:

https://www.bdkamerica.org/default.aspx ... nguageid=2
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Simurgh » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:01 pm

One of the most wonderful sutras IMHO. I hope it gives many people the blessings and impact it had on me.

:namaste:
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby plwk » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:00 am

Yet when you ask most Pure Landers, they would have cited only the Five Sutras and One Treatise (in others, Three Sutras)... and when you mention on the Pratyutpanna, they would most probably go like 'HUH??? Wats dat?'...
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby sinweiy » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:18 am

think it's, too tough a practice, hence we use Five Sutras and One Treatise instead.
thus i heard from MCK that for Pratyutpanna samadhi Buddha recitation retreat (sometimes also known as Buddha Standing samadhi 佛立三昧), people recite for 90 days, without sleeping and sitting! :shock:
they can only stand and walk. after 90 days, if one is really successful, they'll be reborn in western Pureland.
i presume such tough practice are for healthy youngsters rather than older people.
:tongue:
_/\_
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby kirtu » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:01 am

sinweiy wrote:Pratyutpanna samadhi

The full practice developed by Zhiyi is 90 days long.[1] Lay practitioners often take a much shorter time. Any practice that exceeds one day requires a bystander called a dharma protector (護法) to look after the practitioner. The exercise includes constant walking or praying to Amitabha, sometimes accompanying or helped by the bystander. The practioner should avoid sitting, laying, resting or sleeping during the period of practice. The bystander would warn the practitioner if he or she engages in prolonged resting. Very few Buddhists practice this. Yinkuang (印光) suggested that people should practice the much easier recitation of name of the Buddha nianfo instead.[2] But some buddhists have said that they feel healthier after the practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyutpanna_Sutra
/\


This sounds like one of the Amitabha recitation practices found in Tendai.

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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Simurgh » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:01 am

sinweiy wrote:think it's, too tough a practice, hence we use Five Sutras and One Treatise instead.
thus i heard from MCK that for Pratyutpanna samadhi Buddha recitation retreat (sometimes also known as Buddha Standing samadhi 佛立三昧), people recite for 90 days, without sleeping and sitting! :shock:
they can only stand and walk. after 90 days, if one is really successful, they'll be reborn in western Pureland.
i presume such tough practice are for healthy youngsters rather than older people.
:tongue:


Have you practiced this method before? I've heard many wonderful stories concerning the 90 day retreats, people I know have said that they saw Amitabha himself and therefore highly recommended this practice. For me, even a one day retreat would be intense, let alone 90 days without sleeping or sitting! :shock:

The small amounts of time that I've practiced have been really beneficial to me. I'm just a low-level practicioner but I found that I was really able to enter into deep meditation while doing this.

Thank you for sharing this sutra with us. :namaste:
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby sinweiy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:06 am

:namaste:
no, i haven't. perhaps not young already.
i did the three steps one bow before.
_/\_
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Aemilius » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:43 pm

sinweiy wrote:The Pratyutpanna Sutra (also Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra, lit. "The Samadhi of being in the presence of all the Buddhas"/Simplified Chinese 佛说般舟三昧经 ) is an early Mahayana Buddhist scripture, which probably originated around the 1st century BCE in the Gandhara area of northwestern India.



"probably originated", we don't need to accept that. Fact is that this sutra and other pureland sutras originated because of a state of vast samadhi of Buddha Amitabha, because of the vast samadhi of Bhagavan Shakyamuni. That is why these sutras are imbued with the kind of power that they have. They originated thousands of millions of years ago, or many kalpas ago, when Bhikshu Dharmakara practiced Dharma, when he attained and practiced samadhi, and when Shakyamuni practiced as a bodhisattva for three incalculable kalpas. This world is momentary and impermanent like a flash of lightning. Transcendental samadhi is beyond this illusory, evanescent world.
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Aemilius » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:46 am

Commentary to the Samdhinirmocana sutra says:
"Should you ask: 'If Tathagatas pass beyond sorrow in the element of nirvana without remainder of the aggregates, how then can they work to establish the wellfare of others until the end of cycylic existence?' Their ability to do this is due to the power of former aspirations: Tathagatas continually work for the benefit of sentient beings, although they display nirvana."

(Wisdom of Buddha Samdhinirmocana sutra, transl John Powers)
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Anders » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:00 pm

Aemilius wrote:
sinweiy wrote:The Pratyutpanna Sutra (also Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra, lit. "The Samadhi of being in the presence of all the Buddhas"/Simplified Chinese 佛说般舟三昧经 ) is an early Mahayana Buddhist scripture, which probably originated around the 1st century BCE in the Gandhara area of northwestern India.



"probably originated", we don't need to accept that. Fact is that this sutra and other pureland sutras originated because of a state of vast samadhi of Buddha Amitabha, because of the vast samadhi of Bhagavan Shakyamuni. That is why these sutras are imbued with the kind of power that they have. They originated thousands of millions of years ago, or many kalpas ago, when Bhikshu Dharmakara practiced Dharma, when he attained and practiced samadhi, and when Shakyamuni practiced as a bodhisattva for three incalculable kalpas. This world is momentary and impermanent like a flash of lightning. Transcendental samadhi is beyond this illusory, evanescent world.


:smile:

I think scholars are more interested in the question of when it was put to paper in the saha world though.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Aemilius » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:36 pm

That is a futile occupation, if it is not conducive to the liberation of mind, to the attaining of nirvana.
That approach takes for granted that the outer world really exists. But that isn't so, the outer world constantly fools us, it deceives us, it is not to be trusted, it changes like your dream changes, without the dreamer realizing it.
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Simurgh » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:29 pm

I have found an online version of the sutra located here for any practitioners interested in this practice.

May it bring benefit to all sentient beings. :anjali:
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Nosta » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:55 pm

Aemilius wrote:Commentary to the Samdhinirmocana sutra says:
"Should you ask: 'If Tathagatas pass beyond sorrow in the element of nirvana without remainder of the aggregates, how then can they work to establish the wellfare of others until the end of cycylic existence?' Their ability to do this is due to the power of former aspirations: Tathagatas continually work for the benefit of sentient beings, although they display nirvana."

(Wisdom of Buddha Samdhinirmocana sutra, transl John Powers)



I am not sure about the exact meaning of this.

Can someone explain me better this passage?

Buddhas are Buddhas and they can help beings thats what i always tought, but i dont get the complete understanding of this sentence.

Thanks and thanks a lot for this topic.
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby sinweiy » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:33 am

and i am not sure how it is related to the topic.
but i found the sutra.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31219661/Samd ... cana-sutra
my first time reading.
it's going to be a good read. :)
_/\_
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Will » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:51 pm

Nosta wrote:
Aemilius wrote:Commentary to the Samdhinirmocana sutra says:
"Should you ask: 'If Tathagatas pass beyond sorrow in the element of nirvana without remainder of the aggregates, how then can they work to establish the wellfare of others until the end of cycylic existence?' Their ability to do this is due to the power of former aspirations: Tathagatas continually work for the benefit of sentient beings, although they display nirvana."

(Wisdom of Buddha Samdhinirmocana sutra, transl John Powers)



I am not sure about the exact meaning of this.

Can someone explain me better this passage?

Buddhas are Buddhas and they can help beings thats what i always tought, but i dont get the complete understanding of this sentence.

Thanks and thanks a lot for this topic.


If Buddhas & Bodhisattvas did not make powerful vows to not experience nirvana, but instead vowed (or aspired) to "continually work for the benefit of sentient beings" they would "fall into nirvana" (as Nagarjuna put it) and end up on the arhat path. (See Bodhisambhara Shastra vv 68 ff or so)

So the passage is saying that bodhisattva vows are essential to becoming a Buddha.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby plwk » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:03 pm

Nosta, I found this from another thread, maybe it is of some help...(with some history and analysis thrown in). Convo of 'lazy eye' & 'huseng'...

Q: But is nirvana as understood by a Buddhist identical to death as understood by a materialist?
That is, does nirvana=annihilation?

A: In Śrāvakayāna the idea of nirupadhiśeṣa-nirvāṇa is understood as cessation of the skandhas and this mass of suffering.

Q: But again, how is then that Buddhas -- Amitabha, for example -- can inhabit Pure Lands and teach innumerable beings?
Have such Buddhas somehow failed to achieve nirupadhiśeṣa-nirvāṇa?

A: To answer this requires clarification on the general ideas on nirvāṇa as they differ between the Śrāvakayāna and Mahāyāna.
A Buddha in the Sthavira-Śrāvakayāna context achieves cessation of all suffering, which entails an end to their skandhas and psycho-physical continuum at death, thus the "end of this mass of suffering". When an arhat dies their psycho-physical continuum ceases entirely and they are not to reappear again in any of the three realms.

In the Mahāsāṃghika-Śrāvakayāna context the Buddha represented something more transcendental and omni-present, but until the appearance of the Mahāyāna, which arouse from within the Mahāsāṃghika school, it seems such transcendence was not really understood. Emulation and reproduction of it was also likewise not understood. This is why nirvāṇa came to be "revealed" or "demonstrated" for the sake of beings, but in reality there was no "being" that achieved cessation of suffering, but a transcendental force at work for the sake of beings.

Let me refer to Venerable Guang Xing's work entitled The Concept of the Buddha:
The Mahāsāṃghikas’ religious philosophy was based more on faith than on reason, and accepted whatever was said by the Buddha or, more precisely, whatever was taught in the Nikāyas and the Āgamas. As a result, they developed the concept of a transcendental (lokottara) Buddha based on the superhuman qualities of the Buddha, as discussed in Chapter 1 above. Two aspects of the Mahāsāṃghikas’ concept of the Buddha can be identified: the true Buddha who is omniscient and omnipotent, and the manifested forms through which he liberates sentient beings with skilful means. Shakyamuni was considered but one of these forms. The true Buddha supports the manifested forms that can appear in the worlds of the ten directions. In Mahayana Buddhism, the former aspect – the true Buddha – was developed and divided into the concept of the dharmakāya and the concept of the sambhogakāya; the latter aspect – the manifested forms – was developed into the concept of nirmaṇakāya. Thus, the Mahāsāṃghikas are the originators of the idea of the nirmaṇakāya, and the manifested forms can have many embodiments. Furthermore, they also introduced the theory of numerous Buddhas existing in other worlds. (p53)

Again, from this perspective there is no being that really achieves nirupadhiśeṣa-nirvāṇa. It is all a display for the benefit of beings by a transcendental force that was not as clearly defined as it would be in later times by the Mahāyāna.

Nevertheless, they still maintained the goal of arhatship as outlined by Śākyamuni Buddha, which like their colleagues in the Sthavira meant cessation of one's psycho-physical continuum and in turn all of one's subjective sense of suffering and agency. In other words, nirupadhiśeṣa-nirvāṇa meant one could no longer interact with reality anymore as all sense of agency and subjectivity would terminate with the skandhas.

Buddhas in the Mahāyāna context are not beings (sattva) anymore. There is omniscience, but not individuated existence as an identifiable continuum. As it is said in the Vimalakīrti Nirdeśa Sūtra one pays homage "to you who stand nowhere like infinite space". This means that they do not really inhabit or abide anywhere. It is all an appearance for the benefit of beings.

There is no point of reference that can be identified in terms of the dharmakāya. To say buddhas exist is misleading, but on the other hand it cannot be said at the conventional level buddhas do not exist at all. They are force among beings and continue to interact with reality, but without volition, karma or even conception of beings to be liberated. As it is said in various scriptures a bodhisattva that conceives of beings to aid and liberate is no real bodhisattva. This is all the more so when it comes to buddhas.

This is because with prajñā there are no objects to be discerned. In discerned objects there is no real prajñā. Furthermore, there is no perception of beings as such a perception is a result of afflictions and faculties, all of which a buddha does not possess.

Amitābha and other manifest buddhas (nirmaṇakāya) are effectively unreal illusions perceived by beings. They are a result of the past immeasurable stores of merit accumulated from the infinite past and aspirations. Thus their manifestation is not specifically willed, but a result of the force of their merit. In the case of a buddha where there is no longer agency or identity, how could there be a willed determination to even teach beings?

This is why Amitābha Buddha inhabiting a pure land and teaching beings is a convenient arrangement brought about through the collective wholesome karma of beings meeting with the aspirational force of a buddha, but such a perception is effectively only operational from the side of the beings, not that of the buddha in question which ultimately abides nowhere like infinite space.
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Nosta » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:50 pm

First, thank you very much for your answer.
:)


So, Buddhas cannot achieve Nirvana if they want to save beings?

I tought that being a Buddha was the same as being in Nirvana and while Nirvana, one can manifest to other beings in ways that may help them.

This is the kind of questions that always make me confused.
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Re: Pratyutpanna Sutra

Postby Will » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:55 pm

Nosta wrote:First, thank you very much for your answer.
:)


So, Buddhas cannot achieve Nirvana if they want to save beings?

I tought that being a Buddha was the same as being in Nirvana and while Nirvana, one can manifest to other beings in ways that may help them.

This is the kind of questions that always make me confused.


There is more than one kind of nirvana, but I leave it to wiser ones to explain that.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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