OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

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James the Giant
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OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby James the Giant » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:52 am

I'm wondering where my various teachers are in terms of attainments. I mean, what vipassana nana they have got to.

It's ALL about attainments, baby!
Nah, yeah, I know there's more to it than that.
But I'd like to know, just to see how experienced they were on that scale.

However, it's not the done thing to ask, right?
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

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tiltbillings
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:55 am

Seriously, if you want to know ask. And then let us know what the answers are.

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jcsuperstar
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:32 am

the best way to know is to just hang out with them, see how they act, spend lots of time with them. and also sit sit sit, have some experiences yourself and ask about them. it no use to know what your teachers can and can not do, or have attained if you yourself aren't putting in the work and attaining things yourself.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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tiltbillings
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:34 am


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Annapurna
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:37 am

Sounds like you're questioning your various teachers attainments.

Don't they show in action?
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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jcsuperstar
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:38 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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tiltbillings
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:43 am


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mikenz66
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:45 am


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Ben
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby Ben » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:49 am

Hi James

I was with Goenkaji about 20 years ago when somebody asked him if he was enlightened. t was after the last meditation session, just before bed and it was when students could come to the front and ask questions. Answering the question, Goenkaji just smiled and then said no. And then said something that made everyone laugh. Then said something about focusing on one's own efforts. But the way he said it was pretty amazing. Whenever you sat in front of Goenkaji, either for checking or asking a question in the hall before bed time or during a private interview, it was sitting in front of someone who turned the metta fire-hose on full. And when he said humourous things, it was never at the expense of the person asking the question. I can only imagine that the person was thoroughly sand-blasted by Goenkaji's loving kindness.
But as JC has said - you'll know a person of integrity by the way they act. Mangling the words of Forrest Gump "Ariya is what Ariya does"
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:25 am


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Annapurna
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:26 am

According to Venerable Phra Kru Kraisavilasa Metthavihari in a teacher is not allowed to speak about his attainments....
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:32 am

Anyone who has actually met a few instead of reading about them will know that teachers frequently make statements that indicate their realisation...it tends though to be indirect and not to be about their status.

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mikenz66
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:09 am


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James the Giant
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby James the Giant » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:13 am

Well, at an appropriate moment I took a deep breath, and asked.

The answer was quite unequivocal; "You just focus on your own progress, don't worry about anyone else's attainments.
Besides, we don't like talking about that."

Humpf! I wanted to compare and contrast, make a league table, etc etc.
I hate it when teachers confirm my expectations of reasonableness and sensible answering.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

PeterB
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:16 am

Many Vipassana teachers are of course not monastic. And even those who are indicate their attainment in the sense that they talk with authority. That though is a matter of discernment by the listener, not a claim by the speaker. I would be most concerned if I attended teachings and heard claims of attainment. I would in fact check the exits.

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pilgrim
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby pilgrim » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:27 am

Its dangerous to ask this of a monk. If he makes a momentary slip and makes a false claim, its a parajika and he's no longer a monk.

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tiltbillings
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:29 am


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mikenz66
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:39 am


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Ben
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Re: OK or not OK to ask about teacher's attainments?

Postby Ben » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:49 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


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