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How common is stream entry? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

How common is stream entry?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ben
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:17 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:18 am


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legolas
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby legolas » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:25 pm


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Zom
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Zom » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:05 pm

Actually there may be a flash when entering a stream of Dhamma. But this is not some mystic experience, but, indeed, perhaps this is just right understaning, like: "aaah, that is how it is!". This may happen listening to someone's sermon, or reading a book or an article. It is said that 2 conditions are necessary: - words of another, - appropriate attention (by the way, for wrong view to arise, also 2 needed - words of another and not-appropriate attention (ayoniso manasikara)).

Yesterday I also found interestin sutta that proves that no jhana needed to gain stream-entry:

Saradasutta - Autumn

Bhikkhus, in Autumn when there is a clear sky, without a single cloud and the sun rising high up in the sky destroys all the darkness and burns and scorches every thing. In the same manner to the noble disciple there arises the eye of the Teaching and together with that arising, three bonds get dispelled, the view of a self, doubts and taking virtues as the ultimate end of the holy life. After that the leading is by covetousness and hatred. He secluding the mind from sensual and demeritorious thoughts, with thoughts and thought processes and with joy and pleasantness born of seclusion abides in the first jhana. If the noble disciple dies at that time he has no bonds on account of which he is to be born in this world .

(pali original - http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/tipita ... /2.5/2.5.3)

That means, at first you enter the stream, and then only 2 major defilements remain - greed and aversion. Then, if you enter 1 jhana (as this sutta says), you will gain path to non-returning. So if you die, possessing this 1st jhana, you will be anagami.

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acinteyyo
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:45 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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IanAnd
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby IanAnd » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:41 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:35 pm


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IanAnd
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby IanAnd » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:30 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:35 pm


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IanAnd
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby IanAnd » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:50 pm

Last edited by IanAnd on Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:55 pm


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m0rl0ck
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:54 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

Kenshou
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Kenshou » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:16 pm

Eh, I feel like that's trying a little too hard to find a common ground that may not even exist.

lojong1
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby lojong1 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:02 pm


dhammapal
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby dhammapal » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:45 am







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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:49 am


BuddhiHermit
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby BuddhiHermit » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:05 pm

My experience suggests that close to 10% of the population have experienced stream entry where that is defined as a Transpersonal experience. (Can we avoid getting bogged down in detailed proscriptions and definitions?)

Perhaps 2% of those have any idea of what it's about. The rest try and forget it, as it just complicates an already difficult life.

1% or less, try to build on the experience.

Knowing this makes minimal difference to one's progress along the Way.

On the other hand, isn't it wonderful, just BEING a Stream enterer, or maybe an Arahant.

The only problem I have found, is that the moisture from the stream tends to dissolve the adhesive of those Gold or red or blue stickers, - but if you look carefully, you can still see where they have been. :sage:

PeterB
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:12 pm

Remind me Buddhihermit, are you the same guy that says he can change traffic lights by will ?

PeterB
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:44 pm


BuddhiHermit
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby BuddhiHermit » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:05 pm

Peter,
I really thought you might have gone back and actually read what I wrote, but then you couldn't have quite as much fun as you seem to be having - Twice.


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