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 Post subject: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:02 pm 
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Ven. Huifeng has an excellent outline of this book and all of the verses Ven. Master Yin Shun wrote:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... UyMDc3YjEw

The book and outline owe something to the lamrim tradition, but I was wondering if the ancient Chinese tradition had any sort of native 'stages of the path' teachings?

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:44 am 
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It's called the "panjiao" 判教, classification of doctrines. Different schools had different versions of course.

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"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)


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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:08 am 
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Astus wrote:
It's called the "panjiao" 判教, classification of doctrines. Different schools had different versions of course.


Thanks Astus. Although I am interested in stages of practice, not so much "classification of doctrines". Any influential examples before 900CE; any translated into English?

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:54 am 
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Will wrote:
Astus wrote:
It's called the "panjiao" 判教, classification of doctrines. Different schools had different versions of course.


Thanks Astus. Although I am interested in stages of practice, not so much "classification of doctrines". Any influential examples before 900CE; any translated into English?


The Tiantai system lays out stages fairly clearly. One of the major meditation texts by Master Zhiyi is called the "Explanation of the Graduated Dharma of the Perfection of Meditation" 釋禪波羅蜜次第法門. That's 6th cty. Very, very influential.

~~ Huifeng

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:56 am 
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Will wrote:
Ven. Huifeng has an excellent outline of this book and all of the verses Ven. Master Yin Shun wrote:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... UyMDc3YjEw

The book and outline owe something to the lamrim tradition, but I was wondering if the ancient Chinese tradition had any sort of native 'stages of the path' teachings?


Oh, and of course, thanks for this link to the file on my blog.
The blog itself can be found here: http://prajnacara.blogspot.com/

~~ Huifeng

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:19 am 
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Huifeng wrote:
Will wrote:
Astus wrote:
It's called the "panjiao" 判教, classification of doctrines. Different schools had different versions of course.


Thanks Astus. Although I am interested in stages of practice, not so much "classification of doctrines". Any influential examples before 900CE; any translated into English?


The Tiantai system lays out stages fairly clearly. One of the major meditation texts by Master Zhiyi is called the "Explanation of the Graduated Dharma of the Perfection of Meditation" 釋禪波羅蜜次第法門. That's 6th cty. Very, very influential.

~~ Huifeng


Thanks Venerable. Just to see what would happen I put the Chinese title into Google translate and did not find it understandable. Is there any online (free or not) classical Chinese translation program that does at least give one the gist - in English?

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Guys, is there any difference between words Buddhaship and Buddhahood? Or it's the same? :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Dharma Atma wrote:
Guys, is there any difference between words Buddhaship and Buddhahood? Or it's the same? :shrug:


These are newly created English terms, but yes they would be identical.

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Will wrote:
Thanks Astus. Although I am interested in stages of practice, not so much "classification of doctrines". Any influential examples before 900CE; any translated into English?


There is Dushun's meditation manual, translated by T. Cleary in Entry into the Inconceivable. It uses stages of meditation practice in line with the classification of doctrines. Actually, the classification itself can be understood as what follows what, just as in lamrim.

Dharma Atma wrote:
Guys, is there any difference between words Buddhaship and Buddhahood? Or it's the same? :shrug:


It's easy to tell the difference.

Image
Image

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"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)


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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Huseng wrote:
yes they would be identical

Astus wrote:
It's easy to tell the difference

:twothumbsup:
Thank you for the answers, but I have to say that they don't answer the question.
Intuitively I tend to agree with Huseng... But I don't know for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Dharma Atma wrote:
Guys, is there any difference between words Buddhaship and Buddhahood? Or it's the same? :shrug:


They are identical, but 'buddhaship' is not found in any modern dictionaries I have checked. It was used by HC Warren in his translation of the Jataka Tales. He wrote, for example, "the attainment of buddhaship" - meaning 'buddhahood'.

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:49 am 
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Will wrote:
Thanks Venerable. Just to see what would happen I put the Chinese title into Google translate and did not find it understandable. Is there any online (free or not) classical Chinese translation program that does at least give one the gist - in English?


Hi Will,

That's probably because most of the name is a phonetic transliteration, not a translation of the meaning.
As for such online translation programs... if you can find <DDB Access>, that should give something slightly better.
But for titles, just use a good Chinese-English Buddhist dictionary.

~~ Huifeng

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:14 am 
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I recall in a class last year which studied this book and an elderly man (known for his provocation) took the book and tossed it on the table space in front of him...
Narrow minded..... if everyone followed what he stated, there goes the economy and finance.... unrealistic... out of touch with reality....

I merely smiled... :tongue:

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:00 am 
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Am presently preparing class notes for the coming semester, and found some very nice resources for the study of "The Way to Buddhahood". The first is "The Way to Buddhahood, Teaching Materials Compilation" (《成佛之道》教材彙編) by Ven. Qingde (釋清德), which has other materials mainly from Ven. Yin Shun for the whole of the original book, verse by verse. Another is Ven. Hou Guan's (釋厚觀) lectures that he gave at Fu Yen Vihara (福嚴精舍) a few years ago. Again, the whole book verse by verse, with more materials for each part, though here most of the materials are primary sources from sutra and sastra. Sorry, this is all in Chinese, but thought I'd share nonetheless! :smile:

~~ Huifeng

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 Post subject: Re: Way to Buddhahood
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Will wrote:
They are identical, but 'buddhaship' is not found in any modern dictionaries I have checked. It was used by HC Warren in his translation of the Jataka Tales. He wrote, for example, "the attainment of buddhaship" - meaning 'buddhahood'.

Hmm... Thank you. I'll think about it :good:

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