What's the point...

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What's the point...

Postby plwk » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:13 am

Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Indrajala » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:49 am

When you hear such remarks the underlying assumption about death is that it is oblivion, nothingness, permanent irreversible unconsciousness.

In Buddhism we obviously don't see death as such.

In fact if you dialogue with Buddhists from a generally traditional Buddhist family, you might find their attitude towards death is quite different. I think it is much the case with Hindus as well.

When rebirth is what you actually expect to happen (meaning you think it is real and not just a possibility and/or a religious fantasy), the actions of your present life take on a greater meaning. You might also be willing to defer certain activities to some future existence. :smile:


Here is a quote from Nagarjuna that kind of points to that attitude:

By the wise all sciences will be studied even when they are past middle age.
Although there may be no results in this life
It will become easier for them to obtain such in another life.



However, if you were brought up in a largely materialist environment where the common understanding of reality is that you're really just a chemical concoction that falls into eternal oblivion at death, then such a view as outlined above will seem unrealistic probably.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:52 am

Greetings,

plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:


I'd rather have a life of peace than a life of mental torment.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:15 am

plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:


It is precisely because we are going to die that we must practice as though our hair was on fire :)

As Cooran has quoted in other forums, "The problem is that we think we have time."

Best,
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Re: What's the point...

Postby muni » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:52 am

Considered to be a Buddhist, I really am going to put that "me" in safety with one ticket to the moon.

To use this stream of life to cut through delusion. So great: "like hair on fire"!

"Being free from labeling our dream habits. As from labeling death, birth, the ego arises by habitual tendencies." Padmasambhava.

What is there dying looking to Dependent Origination.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:24 pm

To be happy. To contribute as few drops as possible to the ocean of human suffering, others suffering as well as our own.
Ride the horse in the direction its going.

~Werner Erhard
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Re: What's the point...

Postby muni » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:49 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:To be happy. To contribute as few drops as possible to the ocean of human suffering, others suffering as well as our own.

Beautiful said.

" I will continue to reincarnate. Naturally, I do not possess any special abilities that would allow me to control my
future. I have no such abilities, but I have determination. My favorite pray­er reads as follows:

*For as long as space exists,
For as long as the living live,
Let me remain in this world
To disperse the darkness
of suffering.*

“This is my favorite prayer. I always offer it up and it becomes the source of my strength and in­ner resolve. This entire universe may disappear, but it will be re­placed by a new one, and I shall be there." Dalai Lama. (But institution of Dalai Lama can stop.)

The prayer included isn't simple for strenght in the impermanent delusion of wandering beings.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby meindzai » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:00 pm

plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:


All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again.

Yes, I am a Battlestar Galactica fan as well as a Buddhist.

-M
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Ogyen » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:45 pm

Before even asking that question, if you can find the answer to this question, then you've answered your question as well.

What is the point of this very moment? It's about to pass.... ohh it's gone!!

If you can solve that riddle, you'll have the "meaning of life" and I suspect some awakening as well.

Just a thought.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:55 am

muni wrote:*For as long as space exists,
For as long as the living live,
Let me remain in this world
To disperse the darkness
of suffering.*




Wow thats beautiful, thank you :)
Ride the horse in the direction its going.

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Re: What's the point...

Postby Luke » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:57 pm

plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:

Only the body dies. The mind does not.
The karma we create in this life will ripen in our future lives.

Of course, this all hinges on believing in rebirth and karma, so the question really reduces to "How do you convince a non-Buddhist that karma and rebirth are real?"


I think Retro gave the most easily-digestable answer for those who don't believe in karma and rebirth:
retrofuturist wrote:I'd rather have a life of peace than a life of mental torment.

However, some people might be able to maintain their peace of mind by having satisfying relationships with people or by doing peaceful hobbies. For example, a friend of mine recently told me that she doesn't need to attend meditation retreats because she can just "take a hot bath instead."

Both Buddhist philosopy and Buddhist meditation go far beyond mere relaxation and mental pleasure. Shamatha is only the beginning!
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Stephen » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:03 am

OgyenChodzom wrote:Before even asking that question, if you can find the answer to this question, then you've answered your question as well.

What is the point of this very moment?
The point of each moment is to serve as conditions for the arising of the next.
The "self", which is a construct of the mind, is non-self. It is not us, and we are not it. This self blinds us to reality; it is our Mara, our Satan, our Hades. Cast it out and behold the path to freedom.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Stephen » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:04 am

The point of it all is that we have blinded ourselves to what is otherwise a beautiful and harmonious reality. We are the cause of our own suffering, and we can find release from this suffering. In tranquility of wisdom born we are able to help liberate others as well.
The "self", which is a construct of the mind, is non-self. It is not us, and we are not it. This self blinds us to reality; it is our Mara, our Satan, our Hades. Cast it out and behold the path to freedom.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby 5heaps » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:27 am

plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:

i would provide logical reasoning against epiphenomenalism and mind as an emergent property, as well any other idea they might think about, therefore giving them some sense of mind as a functioning substantial thing.

once the mind is shown to be substantial in that way, karma is basically the way mind functions through cause and effect. this makes it much easier to establish past and future lives, and morality.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Clueless Git » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:01 am

plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:

Good topic question PWLK :bow: That one does come up, in various forms, a lot.

Personaly I like to answer it with questions. Questions about what makes the person who asked happy and what makes them sad. Which qualities they admire in other people and which they despise ... Stuff like that ...

Most often that steers the conversation round to things like what brings temporary happiness (money, fast cars, even faster women etc ..) and what things brings more permanent happiness.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby muni » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:45 am

Clueless Git wrote:
plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:

Good topic question PWLK :bow: That one does come up, in various forms, a lot.

Personaly I like to answer it with questions. Questions about what makes the person who asked happy and what makes them sad. Which qualities they admire in other people and which they despise ... Stuff like that ...

Most often that steers the conversation round to things like what brings temporary happiness (money, fast cars, even faster women etc ..) and what things brings more permanent happiness.


When in relax state no need to avoid something, to reach something, to hope for something, to get rid off..if not; there is a kind of solid delusion and deluded sadness.
The point is, whether sitting in a car or walking on naked feet: purification, that brings permanent happiness. :group:
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Re: What's the point...

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:36 am

Greetings Luke,

Luke wrote:I think Retro gave the most easily-digestable answer for those who don't believe in karma and rebirth:
retrofuturist wrote:I'd rather have a life of peace than a life of mental torment.

However, some people might be able to maintain their peace of mind by having satisfying relationships with people or by doing peaceful hobbies. For example, a friend of mine recently told me that she doesn't need to attend meditation retreats because she can just "take a hot bath instead."

Both Buddhist philosopy and Buddhist meditation go far beyond mere relaxation and mental pleasure. Shamatha is only the beginning!

Moreso than shamatha or anything to do with the jhanas, I was actually thinking of craving, its reduction, and its potential cessation.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Clueless Git » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:48 am

muni wrote:
Clueless Git wrote:
plwk wrote:Of it all, if we are going to die anyway?

As a Buddhist, how would your response be? :buddha1:

Good topic question PWLK :bow: That one does come up, in various forms, a lot.

Personaly I like to answer it with questions. Questions about what makes the person who asked happy and what makes them sad. Which qualities they admire in other people and which they despise ... Stuff like that ...

Most often that steers the conversation round to things like what brings temporary happiness (money, fast cars, even faster women etc ..) and what things brings more permanent happiness.


When in relax state no need to avoid something, to reach something, to hope for something, to get rid off..if not; there is a kind of solid delusion and deluded sadness.
The point is, whether sitting in a car or walking on naked feet: purification, that brings permanent happiness. :group:

Beautifully put Muni, quite poetic :heart:
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Re: What's the point...

Postby LastLegend » Sun May 15, 2011 7:54 am

1) Someone said karma created in this life will lead to the next life, and karma in the next life will lead to the next life. But does not mean the karma created will be ripened. Karma rippened only due to arising conditions. For example, if a seed does not have the conditions of soil, sunlight, temparature, etc, it will not germinate. Certainly a seed lying on a table will not be germinating. So this means that karma created in countless past lives are still yet to be rippened, and can happen any time if conditions allowed. By cultivating the path, we are creating conditions that will not favor the arising conditions for previous karma to be rippened.

Another way to look at karma is for example when we see something that reminds us of something we hate, immediately we will experience anger. This is the work of alaya is to store the memories, and these memories will be recalled when meeting arising conditions.

2) Death is like changing clothes. In this case, we change the body/form. But we will still endure the karma in the next life. By cultivating the mind will lead us on a different path. Because we are changing the path of karma because we are not trying to cultivate the path of 3 karma body, speech, and mind. Cultivating the mind is an effort to break through the chains of Dependent Origination. There are many methods to do so. And the method that I find will give me a big chance to break through Dependent Origination in this lifetime is through recitating Namo Amitabha or just Amitabha.

3) People need to follow the correct methods to cultivate the mind. If people use delusion to cultivate the mind, then this is not the correct method. Afterall Buddhism is about liberation through suffering and breaking through cycle of death and rebirth. If we use an attached mind or deluded mind to approach cultivation, we will not be successful. What is an attached mind? An attached mind is the mind that is attached to 3 karma of body, speech, and mind (greed, anger, and ignorance). Also attached to wealth, lust, fame, food, and sleep. And any other forms of attachment to this material life, if you are deliberately let yourself attach to this material life, how can you achieve liberation when it is all about detachment? Approaching cultivation with a deluded mind or attachments can lead us on the path of evil thus becoming maras ourselves if we achieve a certain level of concentration but is still attached to sex for example.
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Re: What's the point...

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun May 15, 2011 6:59 pm

"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:

"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.

"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.

"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.

"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both respects.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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