I try not to read too much into things like that, but I've been experiencing something similar starting from just before the last retreat (my first webcast) and throughout it. No major obstacles, just some minor unfortunate events at my workplace that seemed to die down by today. I've been doing the Dorje Drolo practice daily.padma norbu wrote:Honestly, I think the practices I've been doing have created obstacles already. I thought I was just being paranoid before, but now I'm relatively certain this must be the case.
For a while, when obstacles seemed to be increasing, I kept remembering this one DC member's words when I first started going to Kundrolling: "Dzogchen is not an easy path." She said this like 2 or 3 times upon first being introduced to me while she was rummaging around, almost like a mother or something. Actually, I thought, "well, she's annoying, isn't she? What's with the 'Debbie Downer' routine?" I remember wondering why she was saying that and being slightly worried about getting involved because of it, as I looked around at the rest of the members: an old lady was twitching, some of the other members just looked like hapless individuals... It was really a memorable moment where it seemed like a clear warning. I considered running for the hills, but instead decided, "Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."
ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Meh... actually, my problems probably were caused by dedicating myself to the path and then committing root downfalls. Someone brought it to my attention recently on this forum that I was "dangerously close" to committing the root downfall of discouraging others. Well, I've probably done plenty of that without meaning to. Upon re-reading the list of root downfalls, I'm sure I've committed this one: (1) Praising ourselves and/or belittling others... and (19) Belittling others with sarcastic verses or words ... and possibly (11) Teaching voidness to those whose minds are untrained. I don't think I've caused a split in a monastic community (that seems a stretch), but it's possible something I said about my experiences in the past may have caused some distress to the sangha. I don't know. Also, (18) Giving up bodhichitta ...I've definitely had several days where I say "screw it" only to come back to it later.
Hopefully, this is stuff many people go through. Some seem to take to it all quite easily, but for me it has been a long, difficult process beginning in my early 20s exploring Theravada and thinking I couldn't really give up all that, then Zen and Vajrayana and thinking roughly the same, that I didn't really have the discipline required to formally commit. When I heard about Dzogchen, I mistakenly understood it to be "easier," but as it turns out, you pretty much have to keep most of the same vows as the rest plus some additional discipline required to sort out what's different and how in your mind. All in all, it's been rough.
Do I just do Vajrasattva to purify past actions and try to be sure not to screw up in the future? Would probably be easier for me to start fresh again now if I knew how to really "clean the slate" and start over, so to speak.
Hopefully, this is stuff many people go through. Some seem to take to it all quite easily, but for me it has been a long, difficult process beginning in my early 20s exploring Theravada and thinking I couldn't really give up all that, then Zen and Vajrayana and thinking roughly the same, that I didn't really have the discipline required to formally commit. When I heard about Dzogchen, I mistakenly understood it to be "easier," but as it turns out, you pretty much have to keep most of the same vows as the rest plus some additional discipline required to sort out what's different and how in your mind. All in all, it's been rough.
Do I just do Vajrasattva to purify past actions and try to be sure not to screw up in the future? Would probably be easier for me to start fresh again now if I knew how to really "clean the slate" and start over, so to speak.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
padma norbu wrote:Meh... actually, my problems probably were caused by dedicating myself to the path and then committing root downfalls. Someone brought it to my attention recently on this forum that I was "dangerously close" to committing the root downfall of discouraging others. Well, I've probably done plenty of that without meaning to. Upon re-reading the list of root downfalls, I'm sure I've committed this one: (1) Praising ourselves and/or belittling others... and (19) Belittling others with sarcastic verses or words ... and possibly (11) Teaching voidness to those whose minds are untrained. I don't think I've caused a split in a monastic community (that seems a stretch), but it's possible something I said about my experiences in the past may have caused some distress to the sangha. I don't know. Also, (18) Giving up bodhichitta ...I've definitely had several days where I say "screw it" only to come back to it later.
Hopefully, this is stuff many people go through. Some seem to take to it all quite easily, but for me it has been a long, difficult process beginning in my early 20s exploring Theravada and thinking I couldn't really give up all that, then Zen and Vajrayana and thinking roughly the same, that I didn't really have the discipline required to formally commit. When I heard about Dzogchen, I mistakenly understood it to be "easier," but as it turns out, you pretty much have to keep most of the same vows as the rest plus some additional discipline required to sort out what's different and how in your mind. All in all, it's been rough.
Do I just do Vajrasattva to purify past actions and try to be sure not to screw up in the future? Would probably be easier for me to start fresh again now if I knew how to really "clean the slate" and start over, so to speak.
Best purification is rigpa. After that, Guru Yoga, after that, Ganapuja.
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
So are you, so good choice.padma norbu wrote:"Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
I know I'm annoying. That's why, if you met me in person, I wouldn't speak much at all. I pretty much chatter it up online out of necessity to learn and share ideas from a safe distance without making any real-life enemies in the process. In person, I'm polite as could be and avoid certain discussions just to avoid conflict.Namdrol wrote:So are you, so good choice.padma norbu wrote:"Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."
If this woman knew she was annoying me at the time, I'd be very surprised. She's actually a very sweet and gentle woman. Always tries to get to know me better, but as I said, I don't speak much at all in person.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
padma norbu wrote:I know I'm annoying.Namdrol wrote:So are you, so good choice.padma norbu wrote:"Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."
Dude, lighten up, it was just a quip.
All I was really saying, is that we are sentient beings with flaws -- seeing our own helps us to be more forgiving of our own flaws in others.
If you think you are annoyung, I am much more annoying. There are whole websites devoted to how annoying I am:
http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
LOLNamdrol wrote: Dude, lighten up, it was just a quip.
All I was really saying, is that we are sentient beings with flaws -- seeing our own helps us to be more forgiving of our own flaws in others.
If you think you are annoyung, I am much more annoying. There are whole websites devoted to how annoying I am:
http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.
I knew what you meant, but I am annoying. Pre-Dzogchen days, I was doing tonglen practice and Red Tara sadhana that helped with this impatience with myself and others quite a bit. But, post-Dzogchen there's a bit of conflict like NO I SHOULD DO SHORT TUN INSTEAD! GURU YOGA IS BETTER! Dharma Wheel helps me determine what I need by smoothing out my rough edges in the comfort and safety of my own home. I need to find more time for all kinds of practice; that's the simple truth. Once I feel like I'm okay (finally, if ever), then I will begin Dorje Drolo. I was already thinking it sounds indeed like the kind of practice for these times when there are so many annoying counter-opinions on everything (science, in its own way, is a great obstacle, despite obviously being wonderful and fantastic).
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
I've enjoy reading it ... thanks for providing it!Namdrol wrote: http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole.Namdrol wrote:
If you think you are annoying, I am much more annoying. There are whole websites devoted to how annoying I am:
http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Maybe Namkhai Norbu told him to stop.heart wrote: Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole.
/magnus
I'd be curious to know what retreat happened in Teneriffe, though. That's the real reason I'm replying.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
For some I guess, annoying = speaking the truth bluntly.
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
padma norbu wrote:Maybe Namkhai Norbu told him to stop.heart wrote: Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole.
/magnus
I'd be curious to know what retreat happened in Teneriffe, though. That's the real reason I'm replying.
Nothing, apart from receiving teachings there and eating lots of good food.
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
padma norbu wrote:Maybe Namkhai Norbu told him to stop.heart wrote: Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole.
/magnus
I'd be curious to know what retreat happened in Teneriffe, though. That's the real reason I'm replying.
There was a Tögal retreat in Teneriffe last autumn.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
OHHhhhhhhh... Togal. Hmmm. Again I am curious about this now.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
[quote]
....http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
quote]
Amazing, the first thing I noticed was the comment on there from 'Kevin Solway' from 2009! Says it all really....
s
....http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
quote]
Amazing, the first thing I noticed was the comment on there from 'Kevin Solway' from 2009! Says it all really....
s
s.
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Namdrol wrote:
Best purification is rigpa. After that, Guru Yoga, after that, Ganapuja.
May I add to the list "The purification of 6 Lokas"?
Excellent practice with many levels!!!
It is beneficial to practise this during the New Moon day according to the Tibetan calendar.
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Soooo... you think putting a properly-prepared statue of Dorje Drolo on my altar would cause obstacles just by itself? I know this seems ridiculous, but I have to add something else to my basket and this seems like it would be a wise purchase if it's not going to cause me problems.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
padma norbu wrote:Soooo... you think putting a properly-prepared statue of Dorje Drolo on my altar would cause obstacles just by itself? I know this seems ridiculous, but I have to add something else to my basket and this seems like it would be a wise purchase if it's not going to cause me problems.
It would be a great purchase.
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Best laugh I've had in days, Namdrol...thanks for that!
Too funny. Hadn't read E Sangha Alert in some time, good times.....good times.
And I never connected Kevin Solway until Samdrup pointed it out........
Indeed, Samsara is cyclical in nature, innit???
Too funny. Hadn't read E Sangha Alert in some time, good times.....good times.
And I never connected Kevin Solway until Samdrup pointed it out........
Indeed, Samsara is cyclical in nature, innit???
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- padma norbu
- Posts: 1999
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am
Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat
Done. Thanks for the quick reply.Namdrol wrote:padma norbu wrote:Soooo... you think putting a properly-prepared statue of Dorje Drolo on my altar would cause obstacles just by itself? I know this seems ridiculous, but I have to add something else to my basket and this seems like it would be a wise purchase if it's not going to cause me problems.
It would be a great purchase.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron