ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Sherlock » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:28 pm

padma norbu wrote:Honestly, I think the practices I've been doing have created obstacles already. I thought I was just being paranoid before, but now I'm relatively certain this must be the case.

For a while, when obstacles seemed to be increasing, I kept remembering this one DC member's words when I first started going to Kundrolling: "Dzogchen is not an easy path." She said this like 2 or 3 times upon first being introduced to me while she was rummaging around, almost like a mother or something. Actually, I thought, "well, she's annoying, isn't she? What's with the 'Debbie Downer' routine?" I remember wondering why she was saying that and being slightly worried about getting involved because of it, as I looked around at the rest of the members: an old lady was twitching, some of the other members just looked like hapless individuals... It was really a memorable moment where it seemed like a clear warning. I considered running for the hills, but instead decided, "Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."


I try not to read too much into things like that, but I've been experiencing something similar starting from just before the last retreat (my first webcast) and throughout it. No major obstacles, just some minor unfortunate events at my workplace that seemed to die down by today. I've been doing the Dorje Drolo practice daily.
Sherlock
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:14 pm

Meh... actually, my problems probably were caused by dedicating myself to the path and then committing root downfalls. Someone brought it to my attention recently on this forum that I was "dangerously close" to committing the root downfall of discouraging others. Well, I've probably done plenty of that without meaning to. Upon re-reading the list of root downfalls, I'm sure I've committed this one: (1) Praising ourselves and/or belittling others... and (19) Belittling others with sarcastic verses or words ... and possibly (11) Teaching voidness to those whose minds are untrained. I don't think I've caused a split in a monastic community (that seems a stretch), but it's possible something I said about my experiences in the past may have caused some distress to the sangha. I don't know. Also, (18) Giving up bodhichitta ...I've definitely had several days where I say "screw it" only to come back to it later.

Hopefully, this is stuff many people go through. Some seem to take to it all quite easily, but for me it has been a long, difficult process beginning in my early 20s exploring Theravada and thinking I couldn't really give up all that, then Zen and Vajrayana and thinking roughly the same, that I didn't really have the discipline required to formally commit. When I heard about Dzogchen, I mistakenly understood it to be "easier," but as it turns out, you pretty much have to keep most of the same vows as the rest plus some additional discipline required to sort out what's different and how in your mind. All in all, it's been rough.

Do I just do Vajrasattva to purify past actions and try to be sure not to screw up in the future? Would probably be easier for me to start fresh again now if I knew how to really "clean the slate" and start over, so to speak.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:28 pm

padma norbu wrote:Meh... actually, my problems probably were caused by dedicating myself to the path and then committing root downfalls. Someone brought it to my attention recently on this forum that I was "dangerously close" to committing the root downfall of discouraging others. Well, I've probably done plenty of that without meaning to. Upon re-reading the list of root downfalls, I'm sure I've committed this one: (1) Praising ourselves and/or belittling others... and (19) Belittling others with sarcastic verses or words ... and possibly (11) Teaching voidness to those whose minds are untrained. I don't think I've caused a split in a monastic community (that seems a stretch), but it's possible something I said about my experiences in the past may have caused some distress to the sangha. I don't know. Also, (18) Giving up bodhichitta ...I've definitely had several days where I say "screw it" only to come back to it later.

Hopefully, this is stuff many people go through. Some seem to take to it all quite easily, but for me it has been a long, difficult process beginning in my early 20s exploring Theravada and thinking I couldn't really give up all that, then Zen and Vajrayana and thinking roughly the same, that I didn't really have the discipline required to formally commit. When I heard about Dzogchen, I mistakenly understood it to be "easier," but as it turns out, you pretty much have to keep most of the same vows as the rest plus some additional discipline required to sort out what's different and how in your mind. All in all, it's been rough.

Do I just do Vajrasattva to purify past actions and try to be sure not to screw up in the future? Would probably be easier for me to start fresh again now if I knew how to really "clean the slate" and start over, so to speak.




Best purification is rigpa. After that, Guru Yoga, after that, Ganapuja.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12568
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:29 pm

padma norbu wrote:"Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."


So are you, so good choice.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12568
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:21 pm

Namdrol wrote:
padma norbu wrote:"Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."


So are you, so good choice.


I know I'm annoying. That's why, if you met me in person, I wouldn't speak much at all. I pretty much chatter it up online out of necessity to learn and share ideas from a safe distance without making any real-life enemies in the process. In person, I'm polite as could be and avoid certain discussions just to avoid conflict.

If this woman knew she was annoying me at the time, I'd be very surprised. She's actually a very sweet and gentle woman. Always tries to get to know me better, but as I said, I don't speak much at all in person.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:29 pm

padma norbu wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
padma norbu wrote:"Well, she's annoying. I won't let her discourage me."


So are you, so good choice.


I know I'm annoying.



Dude, lighten up, it was just a quip.

All I was really saying, is that we are sentient beings with flaws -- seeing our own helps us to be more forgiving of our own flaws in others.

If you think you are annoyung, I am much more annoying. There are whole websites devoted to how annoying I am:

http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/

If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12568
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:54 pm

Namdrol wrote:Dude, lighten up, it was just a quip.

All I was really saying, is that we are sentient beings with flaws -- seeing our own helps us to be more forgiving of our own flaws in others.

If you think you are annoyung, I am much more annoying. There are whole websites devoted to how annoying I am:

http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/

If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.


LOL

I knew what you meant, but I am annoying. Pre-Dzogchen days, I was doing tonglen practice and Red Tara sadhana that helped with this impatience with myself and others quite a bit. But, post-Dzogchen there's a bit of conflict like NO I SHOULD DO SHORT TUN INSTEAD! GURU YOGA IS BETTER! Dharma Wheel helps me determine what I need by smoothing out my rough edges in the comfort and safety of my own home. I need to find more time for all kinds of practice; that's the simple truth. Once I feel like I'm okay (finally, if ever), then I will begin Dorje Drolo. I was already thinking it sounds indeed like the kind of practice for these times when there are so many annoying counter-opinions on everything (science, in its own way, is a great obstacle, despite obviously being wonderful and fantastic).
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Sönam » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:57 pm

Namdrol wrote:http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/

If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.


I've enjoy reading it ... thanks for providing it! :rolling:

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
User avatar
Sönam
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby heart » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:34 pm

Namdrol wrote:
If you think you are annoying, I am much more annoying. There are whole websites devoted to how annoying I am:

http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/

If they only knew how much this inflames my ego, they would take it all down right away! But they are not kind, and so they leave it up, and my ego just gets bigger and bigger.


Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole. :smile:
/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
User avatar
heart
 
Posts: 3136
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:38 pm

heart wrote:Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole. :smile:
/magnus


Maybe Namkhai Norbu told him to stop. :smile:

I'd be curious to know what retreat happened in Teneriffe, though. That's the real reason I'm replying.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Mr. G » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:39 pm

For some I guess, annoying = speaking the truth bluntly. :roll: :smile:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
User avatar
Mr. G
 
Posts: 4027
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Location: Spaceship Earth

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:40 pm

padma norbu wrote:
heart wrote:Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole. :smile:
/magnus


Maybe Namkhai Norbu told him to stop. :smile:

I'd be curious to know what retreat happened in Teneriffe, though. That's the real reason I'm replying.



Nothing, apart from receiving teachings there and eating lots of good food.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12568
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby heart » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:46 pm

padma norbu wrote:
heart wrote:Actually you are a lot less annoying these days. In particular the last six months. I suspect you took the red pill in Teneriffe and are now heading down the rabbit-hole. :smile:
/magnus


Maybe Namkhai Norbu told him to stop. :smile:

I'd be curious to know what retreat happened in Teneriffe, though. That's the real reason I'm replying.


Image

There was a Tögal retreat in Teneriffe last autumn.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
User avatar
heart
 
Posts: 3136
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:48 pm

OHHhhhhhhh... Togal. Hmmm. Again I am curious about this now.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Stewart » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:54 pm

[quote]

....http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/

quote]

Amazing, the first thing I noticed was the comment on there from 'Kevin Solway' from 2009! Says it all really....


s
s.
Stewart
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Dronma » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:10 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Best purification is rigpa. After that, Guru Yoga, after that, Ganapuja.


May I add to the list "The purification of 6 Lokas"?
Excellent practice with many levels!!!
It is beneficial to practise this during the New Moon day according to the Tibetan calendar. :namaste:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
User avatar
Dronma
 
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Athens - GR

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:14 pm

Soooo... you think putting a properly-prepared statue of Dorje Drolo on my altar would cause obstacles just by itself? I know this seems ridiculous, but I have to add something else to my basket and this seems like it would be a wise purchase if it's not going to cause me problems.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:20 pm

padma norbu wrote:Soooo... you think putting a properly-prepared statue of Dorje Drolo on my altar would cause obstacles just by itself? I know this seems ridiculous, but I have to add something else to my basket and this seems like it would be a wise purchase if it's not going to cause me problems.



It would be a great purchase.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12568
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby conebeckham » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Best laugh I've had in days, Namdrol...thanks for that!

Too funny. Hadn't read E Sangha Alert in some time, good times.....good times.


:smile:

And I never connected Kevin Solway until Samdrup pointed it out........
Indeed, Samsara is cyclical in nature, innit???
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: ChNNR Dorje Drolo retreat

Postby padma norbu » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Namdrol wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Soooo... you think putting a properly-prepared statue of Dorje Drolo on my altar would cause obstacles just by itself? I know this seems ridiculous, but I have to add something else to my basket and this seems like it would be a wise purchase if it's not going to cause me problems.



It would be a great purchase.


Done. Thanks for the quick reply.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

PreviousNext

Return to Dzogchen

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: stettler@globo.com and 14 guests

>