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Bhikkuni Prophecy? - Dhamma Wheel

Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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theravada_guy
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Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:39 am

Greetings all,

I don't know if this has been dealt with in some other thread, but I wouldn't even know what to search for. But I've been reading about how some traditionalists are against the Theravada bhikkhunis getting fully ordained because of something the Buddha said about this would lessen the amount of time the sasana is on earth. What is this all about? I've read other things here and there, but I'm still confused with it all.
With metta,

Justin

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:03 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

alan
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby alan » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:46 am

Don't get it.
Why do traditionalists think it is no longer valid?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:56 am

Image
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby alan » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:04 am

Hmm,
You may be right. Maybe we should not open that can.

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Annapurna
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:15 am

"Can of worms".... :lol:

Wouldn't worry about it, Theravada guy and Alan.

Once the Dhamma is gone, a new Buddha will arise.

Wouldn't get attached to time too much therefore.

It's also only becoming a can of worms, if only a statement is posted, and no explanation quoted in addition to that.

This creates the impression that it is the women's fault.

The ensuing defensive reaction and discussion about this is the can of worms...
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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mikenz66
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:56 am


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appicchato
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby appicchato » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:43 am


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cooran
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby cooran » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:58 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Annapurna
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:02 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Goedert
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Goedert » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:35 pm

This is a problem.

In western culture the womans made the feminist revolution and have the support of the human rights in to it.

Human rights didn't pay nothing to later eastern culture, see China in the book the Art of War by Sun Tzu, he decapted the 2 chief wifes of the emperor, because they were lazzy with the trainning program.

Perfect Human beings are Human Beings, perfect minds are minds, they have the same INTLECTUAL potential.

But everybody knows that we born different from each other, one has more intelligence, one is ignorant, etc.

About a woman be a Sammasambuddha it is complicated to even know why, problem because mestruation, body changes, society roles when they appear in the world, etc.

There is many things that culture play a role on it. It is a can of worms discussion.

EDIT: Do you know what is to change the constituition of a country? Do you know what is to found a knew country? It needs a new constituition or a modified one. The same is the Vinaya of the Sangha founded by the Tathagata. Rules are Rules, they have a principle, they exist to conduct to peace, they are to be followed.

EDIT: This to the sangha discussion, specific the Thai sangha, or we are making kamma speaking what is not vinaya as vinaya.


I prefer to be with the words of the Awoked One.

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Annapurna
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:17 pm

Agree with you on many points, especially cultural aspects, but I would disagree with menstruation..

So many women go to work everyday and nobody even knows they are having their period-jet pilots, politicians, teachers, lawyers, mothers of toddlers, and so forth.

:anjali:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

chownah
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby chownah » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:41 pm

I never thought I would post this but maybe an illegitimate Bhikkuni thingy is exactly what we need.....we get Bhikkuni AND we don't shorten the sassana!!!!!!....its a twofer!!!!!!!!!
chownah

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theravada_guy
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby theravada_guy » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:09 pm

Greetings all,

This is not to open a can of worms, I'm just looking for an online copy of this prophecy from the Suttas.
With metta,

Justin

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:21 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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theravada_guy
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby theravada_guy » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:05 pm

:shock: Bhikku Pesala. My apologies. Thank you.
With metta,

Justin

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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby metta_noob » Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:22 pm

hey folks, i haven't read the other thread yet - the one linked in one of the earlier replies

but i was going to ask the wise and learned folks here what the feminine form of bhante is ... but i noticed this recent thread LOL

anyway, fyi we in kl are in the esteemed company of Bhikkuni Kusuma, and i've been attending her dhamma talks the past 2 weeks or so. really learned a lot from her talks ... she is simply amazing for someone her age (i guess in her 70s). with a masters degree in molecular biology, she delivered last friday's talk with a very scientific flavor. y'all ought to google her name and just read about her and the revival of bhikkuni ordination. fyi she was ordained in 1996

so back to my question, I thought it was odd that we addressed the monks bhante but the emcee introducing her addressed her bhikkuni. as a noob, i understand that bhante means teacher. so why didn't the emcee address her as bhante? i mean i wouldn't walk up to a monk and address him bhikku so-and-so, if you know what i mean LOL

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manas
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby manas » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:02 am

Goodness, I do hope that everyone here realizes that not every word in the Tipitaka can be trusted as the actual word of the Buddha, but must be tested and tallied against our own wisdom and experience (as the Buddha, incidentally, tells us we should be doing...) From time to time I read or hear things ascribed to the Master, and in my heart there is the knowing, "nope, the Buddha would NOT have said that, that is a later addition composed and written by monks, not by the Blessed One". And that passage quoted above about the ordaining of women resulting in the Dhamma's decline sooner than would otherwise have happened, is a good example of this. We have to use our discretion when reading the scriptures! We have to extract the essence, what is of real value, and discard what is clearly dubious and non-essential.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:34 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Dharmakara
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Re: Bhikkuni Prophecy?

Postby Dharmakara » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:41 am



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