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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:09 am 
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Jikan wrote:
When you insist on going your own way and avoiding a teacher, you are putting a deluded person in charge of your development: yourself.

Would you give yourself a dental filling? A colonoscopy? No: you'd trust a competent person for that. Similarly for Buddhist practice.

For the OP, there are particular challenges that need to be addressed. But as a general rule, it's much better to practice with others and with a capable teacher if you want to get some results.


Something better than the BAD ANALOGY you presented.

Could you teach yourself enough to give yourself a colonoscopy? It hardly seems impossible.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:14 am 
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Point taken: it is surely not completely impossible to learn how to do an at-home colonoscopy. :jedi: Or some approximation thereof.


That said, I'd sooner trust a competent gastroenterologist than an incompetent fool like myself. I like to think that most reasonable persons would agree with me. Here is why I think unreasonable persons would not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:17 am 
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I find it amusing how you poke fun at me, and have yet to discredit anything I have said. Such is a common occurrence at many of the forums I have visited. There is a term used to describe this phenomena, they call it "group think".

My views do not fit into your apparent cocoon, because you are still within that cocoon. If you are not than please explain "why" it is I am who misconceived rather than you being misconceived. I stand behind my words, and you fail to refute any, only poke fun at a supposed persona, that is not here. You are seriously manifesting your own ego in failed attempts to uncover anything about me. This is heavily misplaced energy that could be spent much better within.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:20 am 
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So you've learned everything on your own, no teacher?

Who do you think wrote the books you read, the Internet sites you visit, etc.?
You were a blank slate at birth, everything you've learned is from a teacher of some kind.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:21 am 
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Jikan wrote:
Point taken: it is surely not completely impossible to learn how to do an at-home colonoscopy. :jedi: Or some approximation thereof.


That said, I'd sooner trust a competent gastroenterologist than an incompetent fool like myself. I like to think that most reasonable persons would agree with me. Here is why I think unreasonable persons would not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect


I guess I see it as something I would rather not leave to "chance" in regards to spirituality. If you are fortunate enough to have found a teacher as a guide, then I do envy that trust that must be present. I disagree that it is a necessity.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:24 am 
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justsit wrote:
So you've learned everything on your own, no teacher?

Who do you think wrote the books you read, the Internet sites you visit, etc.?
You were a blank slate at birth, everything you've learned is from a teacher of some kind.


Exactly, I have learned things from microbes to ants, they are all my teachers, infact you are portraying a teacher to me right now. That is not to say there was one man who guided me, as is popularly considered a teacher. Or is it one tradition I fallowed, or some belief I took on. The doing can only be done by you, ad infinitum.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:28 am 
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Namdrol wrote:
teknix wrote:
Namdrol wrote:


You responded with a cracked mirror. Apparently, some subtleties are lost even on you.


I am sure there are some that are. It maybe lost on me, or the response could just as well be lost on you.


When one holds up one finger, the other should hold up one finger. If the other holds up two fingers, it means the other does not understand.

N


Or the other is insinuating math.

In this case it is deduction that was attempted to be insinuated.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:31 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
teknix wrote:
The fear of emptiness maybe reconciled within the ego, absolute void is not something one generally experiences without it becoming absolute nothingness.


What is "it" that is not becoming absolute nothingness? I'm having trouble parsing your sentence here. Are you saying that absolute void, when it is directly experienced, is the absolute nothingness? So?

Quote:
There was not fear, but negativity and nothingness radiating. The void of emptiness is not an absolute nothingness. This of course is likely beyond your experiences to realize at this point.


So the void of emptiness radiated negativity? How does something which is empty radiate anything? Negative or positive? How, exactly, does nothingness "radiate?"


No, I am pretty much done talking with you though. Far too much assuming for me to be of any help to you.

The Void of emptiness is not nothingness.

If you stop assuming anything about the words other than what was said, I will be happy to try to answer any more of your questions.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:36 am 
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teknix wrote:
justsit wrote:
So you've learned everything on your own, no teacher?

Who do you think wrote the books you read, the Internet sites you visit, etc.?
You were a blank slate at birth, everything you've learned is from a teacher of some kind.


Exactly, I have learned things from microbes to ants, they are all my teachers, infact you are portraying a teacher to me right now. That is not to say there was one man who guided me, as is popularly considered a teacher. Or is it one tradition I fallowed, or some belief I took on. The doing can only be done by you, ad infinitum.


When you want to learn biology, any teacher will do.
When you want to learn specific Tibetan teachings, you need a teacher from a specific lineage. Not everything is written down.

You will of course disagree, but you will still miss essential points. The problem is, you will not even know what you missed. Your loss.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:37 am 
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justsit wrote:
teknix wrote:
justsit wrote:
So you've learned everything on your own, no teacher?

Who do you think wrote the books you read, the Internet sites you visit, etc.?
You were a blank slate at birth, everything you've learned is from a teacher of some kind.


Exactly, I have learned things from microbes to ants, they are all my teachers, infact you are portraying a teacher to me right now. That is not to say there was one man who guided me, as is popularly considered a teacher. Or is it one tradition I fallowed, or some belief I took on. The doing can only be done by you, ad infinitum.


When you want to learn biology, any teacher will do.
When you want to learn specific Tibetan teachings, you need a teacher from a specific lineage. Not everything is written down.

You will of course disagree, but you will still miss essential points. The problem is, you will not even know what you missed. Your loss.


There is truth in what you say, and yes I see it. Probably not as you do.

It is kept away not for safety, but for profit. There is more hazards in keeping it locked up, then sharing the ins and outs. People pay more for things they think are "secret", so it makes conman pretend to have a "secret" to sell.

Opacity is the only way. If a path has issues then it should be known. Hiding things from one another is not beneficial. Let alone in regards to spiritual knowledge.


Last edited by teknix on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:38 am 
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teknix wrote:
When I want to learn Biology, it begins with a book or text, regardless if there is another present or not.

Is this true?



Sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:49 am 
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justsit wrote:
teknix wrote:
justsit wrote:
So you've learned everything on your own, no teacher?

Who do you think wrote the books you read, the Internet sites you visit, etc.?
You were a blank slate at birth, everything you've learned is from a teacher of some kind.


Exactly, I have learned things from microbes to ants, they are all my teachers, infact you are portraying a teacher to me right now. That is not to say there was one man who guided me, as is popularly considered a teacher. Or is it one tradition I fallowed, or some belief I took on. The doing can only be done by you, ad infinitum.


When you want to learn biology, any teacher will do.
When you want to learn specific Tibetan teachings, you need a teacher from a specific lineage. Not everything is written down.

You will of course disagree, but you will still miss essential points. The problem is, you will not even know what you missed. Your loss.


What is the only way for one to "own" knowledge or info?


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:54 am 
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catmoon wrote:
teknix wrote:
When I want to learn Biology, it begins with a book or text, regardless if there is another present or not.

Is this true?



Sometimes.


Can you think of any task that cannot be performed with well written instruction and proper tools? (beliefs aside)


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:57 am 
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Delete...misread the reply.


Last edited by justsit on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:58 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
Where to start?

There is no "I" that peers into a void....rather, that "I" is as much void as that which it is allegedly peering into....

Buddha taught personal selflessness in the First Turning of the Wheel, and phenomenal selfless in the Second Turning of the Wheel.

To feel that one might "succumb" to something hazardous is self-cherishing, born of ignorance. This experience of "peering into the void" is a conceptual construct, nothing more.


Phenomenal selflessness is part of realizing metta. It is nothing about your thoughts, or in your head even. It is the nature of love.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:59 am 
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teknix wrote:

It is kept away not for safety, but for profit. There is more hazards in keeping it locked up, then sharing the ins and outs. People pay more for things they think are "secret", so it makes conman pretend to have a "secret" to sell.

Opacity is the only way. If a path has issues then it should be known. Hiding things from one another is not beneficial. Let alone in regards to spiritual knowledge.


Wrong.
The reason it is secret is because it can be harmful if used improperly. Think, locking the knife drawer when small children are around.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:02 am 
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Peering into the actual absolute void is an experience, without metta it is a permanent one, imo.

Awareness is not fixed, it can explore, which is how metta is achieved. Awareness sort of "goes to love", there are other places awareness can go as well, one is into non-existence, aka the absolute void.

From the perspective of the absolute void, to be come one with it, there is only nothing. It seems that no amount of energy can reverse that, and has been hopeless to try.

Even with metta, it is still damaging to the energy within. Not something to be taken lightly or something for anyone less than adept should even consider imo.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:14 am 
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justsit wrote:
teknix wrote:

It is kept away not for safety, but for profit. There is more hazards in keeping it locked up, then sharing the ins and outs. People pay more for things they think are "secret", so it makes conman pretend to have a "secret" to sell.

Opacity is the only way. If a path has issues then it should be known. Hiding things from one another is not beneficial. Let alone in regards to spiritual knowledge.


Wrong.
The reason it is secret is because it can be harmful if used improperly. Think, locking the knife drawer when small children are around.


Then why would it just not be explained properly in the 1st place, rather than leave it to chance if someones stumbles upon it? If it was devulged they would atleast know something about it, as opposed to finding a gun and shooting yourself in the foot because you have never seen or heard of a gun.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:14 am 
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justsit wrote:
teknix wrote:

It is kept away not for safety, but for profit. There is more hazards in keeping it locked up, then sharing the ins and outs. People pay more for things they think are "secret", so it makes conman pretend to have a "secret" to sell.

Opacity is the only way. If a path has issues then it should be known. Hiding things from one another is not beneficial. Let alone in regards to spiritual knowledge.


Wrong.
The reason it is secret is because it can be harmful if used improperly. Think, locking the knife drawer when small children are around.


Actually I was right, I knew your argument before it was typed.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:28 am 
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GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA

Awareness is that which goes before the gate. Once it can break free of it's reflection.


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