teknix's Views

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby Mr. G » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:03 pm

teknix wrote:There is no difference in this process throughout any tradition that is relevant,


You are wrong. If you think there are no differences in the methods and outcome of different forms of meditation, you are mistaken by a longshot. Even this you could look up on the internet.

teknix, we get it. About every 3 months, some new-age type drops in to this forum to enthrall us with their acumen and meditative insights. What really ends up happening is a displaying of an incredible lack of intellectual understanding of various religious tenets in tandem with misconceived understandings through their own meditative pursuits. IMHO, this is dangerous for new members on the path.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Did Buddha mean for his teaching to be divided?

Postby Otsom » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:03 pm

Having only the bodhisattva path would be very inefficient in the liberation stuff. Consider Gautama Buddha - which beings have liberated themselves (the buddhas only show the path) in this world after his self-awakening? Any others than the disciples who have followed his teaching and become arhats? Shouldn't self-awakened ones produce both awakened disciples and bodhisattvas?

Number of awakened beings is the bottom line. So, from that point of view, there's nothing flawed with trying to add yourself and others to Gautama's record here and now.
For the Welfare of Many
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#iti-084

This was said by the Lord...

"Bhikkhus, these three persons appearing in the world appear for the welfare of many people, for the happiness of many people, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans. What three?

"Here, bhikkhus, a Tathagata appears in the world, an Arahant, a Fully Enlightened One, possessing perfect knowledge and conduct, a sublime one, a world-knower, an unsurpassed leader of persons to be tamed, a teacher of devas and humans, an enlightened one, a Lord. He teaches Dhamma that is good at the outset, good in the middle, and good at the end, with its correct meaning and wording, and he proclaims the holy life in its fulfillment and complete purity. This, bhikkhus, is the first person appearing in the world who appears for the welfare of many people, for the happiness of many people, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans.

"Next, bhikkhus, there is a disciple of that teacher, an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and is completely released through final knowledge. He teaches Dhamma... and he proclaims the holy life in its fulfillment and complete purity. This, bhikkhus, is the second person appearing in the world... for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans.

"And next, bhikkhus, there is a disciple of that teacher, a learner who is following the path, who has learned much and is of virtuous conduct. He teaches Dhamma... and he proclaims the holy life in its fulfillment and complete purity. This, bhikkhus, is the third person appearing in the world... for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans.

"These, bhikkhus, are the three persons appearing in the world who appear for the welfare of many people, for the happiness of many people, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans."

The teacher, the great sage,
Is the first in the world;
Following him is the disciple
Whose composure is perfected;
And then the learner training on the path,
One who has learned much and is virtuous.

These three are chief amongst devas and humans:
Illuminators, preaching Dhamma,
Opening the door to the Deathless,
They free many people from bondage.

Those who follow the path
Well taught by the unsurpassed Caravan-leader,
who are diligent In the Sublime One's dispensation,
Make an end of suffering
Within this very life itself.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:08 pm

So now I'm a "new-age" type? You have never had "one or even two" like me here, That I guarantee you. We are all more alike than different.

You are very good at dividing and pointing out the flaws, yet are doing little to aid any understanding or spread any of your insight as of yet. I know you are an important mod figure and have a role to live up to, but it doesn't aid your argument. Are you simply asking me to "believe you" ?

You only know your personal path and deem it the only path or the appropriate path. How can you know a path you have not tread?
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby Mr. G » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:19 pm

teknix wrote:So now I'm a "new-age" type? You have never had "one or even two" like me here, That I guarantee you. We are all more alike than different.


Actually there are about 5 member names off the top of my head that are reminiscent of your posting style.

You are very good at dividing and pointing out the flaws, yet are doing little to aid any understanding or spread any of your insight as of yet.


Read some good introductory Buddhism books like the ones by Paul Williams or Roger Corless. You will see why Buddhism is different from other religions and vice versa.

You only know your personal path and deem it the only path or the appropriate path. How can you know a path you have not tread?


You are taking my statements out of context. We are all on our paths and do so as individuals. However, there are distinct differences in the meditative methods of each tradition. It is your inability to distinguish the methods, tenets or religions from one another is why you misunderstand the underpinnings of not just Buddhism, but every contemplative religion.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Did Buddha mean for his teaching to be divided?

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:23 pm

It seems like once an Arhat "jumps" into the void it is nearly impossible to get him out. That is why I think twofold emptiness comes after metta.

I may be completely off still in my understanding of the point an Arhat is "spawned", but it currently seems like a logical deduction that emptiness would be that point.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:33 pm

It may have to do with this perspective containing a disdainful outlook on the divisiveness of most religions. The men can be excused because they are just following the path that is already pre-existing.

I would have thought that by now some lineage holders would have seen the flaw within that idea by now, but tradition is not often considered an attachment, even by those considered "Holy".

I will give you one truth that resonates throughout many religions:

There exists within a "spirit", "soul", and/or "awareness" that is part of essential nature of what it means to be human.

Which religion would deny that?
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby Tara » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:39 pm

teknix wrote:It may have to do with this perspective containing a disdainful outlook on the divisiveness of most religions. The men can be excused because they are just following the path that is already pre-existing.

I would have thought that by now some lineage holders would have seen the flaw within that idea by now, but tradition is not often considered an attachment, even by those considered "Holy".

I will give you one truth that resonates throughout many religions:

There exists within a "spirit", "soul", and/or "awareness" that is part of essential nature of what it means to be human.

Which religion would deny that?


:offtopic:

Further off topic posts will be removed.

:focus: "Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction"

Regards,
Tara

**********************************************************
Maybe you collect a lot of important writings,
Major texts, personal instructions, private notes, whatever.
If you haven’t practiced, books won’t help you when you die.
Look at the mind – that’s my sincere advice.

**********************************************************
from Longchenpa's 30 Pieces of Sincere Advice

Mors certa — hora incerta
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:43 pm

Tara wrote:
teknix wrote:It may have to do with this perspective containing a disdainful outlook on the divisiveness of most religions. The men can be excused because they are just following the path that is already pre-existing.

I would have thought that by now some lineage holders would have seen the flaw within that idea by now, but tradition is not often considered an attachment, even by those considered "Holy".

I will give you one truth that resonates throughout many religions:

There exists within a "spirit", "soul", and/or "awareness" that is part of essential nature of what it means to be human.

Which religion would deny that?


:offtopic:

Further off topic posts will be removed.

:focus: "Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction"

Regards,


You fail to see that IS BEING DONE. We are all teachers and students. He is looking for someone to teach him, I am portraying that person, I don't see the "off-topic".

Anyone who says anything in this thread, besides the "OP" is portraying a teacher.

Can you see how this works? How to find a teacher vs finding a teacher, what is more beneficial to spiritual pursuit?
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Absolute void as hazardous? (split)

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:51 pm

I too have peered at the absolute void when deeply contemplating emptiness, yet I did not succumb to it. It felt hazardous to me, and has remained so. From this perspective, I see metta as the only tool that can be used to not succumb.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby conebeckham » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:04 pm

teknix wrote:I will give you one truth that resonates throughout many religions:

There exists within a "spirit", "soul", and/or "awareness" that is part of essential nature of what it means to be human.

Which religion would deny that?


Well, Buddhism. For the most part. But perhaps you can qualify this "awareness" or essential nature of what it means to be human, and how it may differ from other sentient beings? For that matter, perhaps you could tell us what an "essential nature" is.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:07 pm

conebeckham wrote:
teknix wrote:I will give you one truth that resonates throughout many religions:

There exists within a "spirit", "soul", and/or "awareness" that is part of essential nature of what it means to be human.

Which religion would deny that?


Well, Buddhism. For the most part. But perhaps you can qualify this "awareness" or essential nature of what it means to be human, and how it may differ from other sentient beings? For that matter, perhaps you could tell us what an "essential nature" is.


Awareness is what I have chosen for this perspective, it helps to eliminate a lot of the cacophony inherent within the dogma's to me.

Essential nature is the underlying current that we are all connected with. Some are aware of it and others are not, but it is still there.

It is a part of being human.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby conebeckham » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:10 pm

If something is an "underlying current," that implies it is "moving?"

If this is true, in what way can it be called an essence?

If something is the "essence" of something else, it must reside at all times in that something else, yes?
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:14 pm

conebeckham wrote:If something is an "underlying current," that implies it is "moving?"

If this is true, in what way can it be called an essence?

If something is the "essence" of something else, it must reside at all times in that something else, yes?


Energy never stops from this perspective, it is underlying everything. The fact it is moving is the reason you can press the keys on the keyboard in front of you.

Energy is not dependent upon matter, yet matter is dependent upon energy. Does that answer your question? I could try another angle if not.

Energy is the formless form, underlying every shape/form.

Interestingly enough, I have found that all these forms of energy exist within us, and can be experienced directly, yet it is not within the brain or mind that it occurs, but within awareness.

All the elements combined is what makes us, not any single element. Therefor we are not the elements, but the elements are us. These forms are an expression of energy.
Last edited by teknix on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby conebeckham » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:26 pm

So, my "essence" is energy? This is what "makes me human?" And yet it pervades?

If this is the case, why, then, am I not a tree? What, essentially, makes my energy different from that of a tree?

Please examine your assertions and let me know how something which pervades all things, as you say, can be the "essence" of one thing.....??
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:33 pm

conebeckham wrote:So, my "essence" is energy? This is what "makes me human?" And yet it pervades?

If this is the case, why, then, am I not a tree? What, essentially, makes my energy different from that of a tree?

Please examine your assertions and let me know how something which pervades all things, as you say, can be the "essence" of one thing.....??


You are no different from a tree, in-fact some of the atoms that make "you" could have once been part of a tree. Atoms do not own other atoms, they only interact. They remember that interaction like proven in non-locality. The atoms that make "you" have been around long before your greatest ancestor even.

Say when you die, you are cremated and your ashes are used to fertilize a plant, that then provides nutrients or "energy" for an apparently different form. These atoms are changing forms continuously along a chain of events , and may even eventually make their way back to a human expression, and still have the memories of the previous human expression. Are the memories of the previous expressions extrapolated from the atoms belonging to anything?

It all goes back to the earth to be recycled.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby conebeckham » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:39 pm

So.......atoms have memories?

And the Tree and I are the same? I thought this essence was part of being human, but now you're telling me that it's also part of being a tree?

Dude, look....I am not a tree. A tree cannot post to the internet. Nor can I sprout leaves.

You need to develop discrimination.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:44 pm

conebeckham wrote:So.......atoms have memories?

And the Tree and I are the same? I thought this essence was part of being human, but now you're telling me that it's also part of being a tree?

Dude, look....I am not a tree. A tree cannot post to the internet. Nor can I sprout leaves.

You need to develop discrimination.


I never said you are a tree or are anything for that matter. You are entangled atoms as is a tree. Tree's have energy as well, it is much more subtle and dense than any "qi" you may generate. You can even "draw upon" or "exchange with" the energy of a tree once you realize metta.
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Re: Absolute void as hazardous? (split)

Postby wisdom » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:44 pm

The fear of emptiness comes from having a strong ego. Realizing emptiness means death for the ego, and the ego will do whatever it can to prevent that. This is why guidance and teachers are good to have on the path. When we try to do it all on our own, we will find it very difficult to surmount these many obstacles by ourselves. Even reincarnated Bodhisattvas will seek the guidance of teachers. Even Buddha had teachers. Every great master that I can think of in any spiritual tradition had teachers. I suggest you follow their example and do the same.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:53 pm

What you are is something that you must realize, non can do it for you.
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Re: Finding a teacher when you dislike interaction

Postby teknix » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:55 pm

There is no grandeur in relinquishing "being special", only truth.
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