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I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

I Believe in Literal Rebirth

Yes
44
57%
No
7
9%
Indifferent
8
10%
Undecided
11
14%
Meaning of Topic Unclear
7
9%
 
Total votes: 77

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octathlon
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby octathlon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:44 pm

I'm enjoying reading all these perspectives. I totally agree that when you are reading the scriptures looking for clues as to how to understand difficult concepts, you have to be verrrrry careful when reading the English translation. Translators are always interpreters to some degree partly because of no exact correspondence between languages and partly from possible personal bias.

:yingyang:

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Vepacitta
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Vepacitta » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:58 pm

Interesting thought Beeble - people 'psyching themselves out' so that they're 'good' and don't inculcate more bad kamma.

Personally, I think that's a convoluted way to think - however - I'll just bet you're spot on as to some people.

However, I think one can be a nihilist and materialist and be 'moral' - do good actions. It's never occurred to me personally to "do bad things" if I could "get away with it". I actually feel that's pretty childish. There's no reason to be a right bastard - whether we go to wherever, we don't, there's no such thing as nibbana - whatever - there's no reason to be like that.

My point is - if one wants this life to be 'it' - maybe they don't like being here (I certainly never have since as far back as I can remember) - and IF - the whole 're-birth' conundrum (for that's what it's become) is merely 'in this life' (again - no reason why it cannot be that) - then there is no point to practise - if there are no literal re-births - why bother? If there is no being to be reborn - then no matter.

On the other hand - (I'm arguing with myself here) what is 'reborn' (literally or 'in this life') are what I like to call (for lack of better word and trying not to connote 'self') are tendencies - tendencies carrying on by 'one's' actions ... not a life continuum - just tendencies carrying on - that is what gets 'reborn'

Certainly tendencies being reborn in this life can be a real drag - if those tendencies to which one clings (kling-on - kaplah!) carry on to a new form - I suppose one could say there is a tenuous connexion with a former 'being' - a mass of constituents - in such 'new' life. :thinking:

Meh - it's impossible to discuss the ineffable - sometimes I think I see it - "presque vu" - anyone read Catch-22?

Sitting on my front porch on misty Mt. Meru,

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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AdvaitaJ
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby AdvaitaJ » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:39 am

Undecided because I have not yet reached a conclusion. Had I been asked a few years ago, the answer would have been an unequivocal "no". But, now? I have reached no conclusion.

The teachings have been right about so many things to this point, I'm no longer willing to dismiss the concept. My only concern is that failure to believe in rebirth means I'm still shackled to the fetter of "doubt" and the five "lower fetters" are becoming of great interest these days.

Regards: Jim
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
Li Bai

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Goedert
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Goedert » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:44 am

I believe in abhidhamma rebirth, it is the most logic to current kammic condition.

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retrofuturist
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:34 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

lojong1
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby lojong1 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:22 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:27 am


lojong1
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby lojong1 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:47 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:54 am


PeterB
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:13 am


lojong1
Posts: 580
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby lojong1 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:07 am


PeterB
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:48 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:26 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

PeterB
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:39 am


PeterB
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:51 am

I suspect that the reason for the high score on Dharma Wheel is in part the input from the Vajrayana students.
A literal belief in punarbhava ( or its synonyms ) is more or less a non option in the Vajrayana system because otherwise the whole Tulku system collapses.

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Annapurna
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:52 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:03 am

What would make me happy is that important matters of doctrine were not the subject of polls. It trivialises those topics.
But if polls have to happen then that their terms were clear and unambiguous. And that their instigators were not simply trying to score points for their side.
I have NO view of post mortem Rebirth Anna. And I refuse to speculate about the matter. I would have thought that much at least is clear.
So, in fact i have no dog in this race.
I will say it again as apparently I have not been clear. I do not know it literal post mortem Rebirth is true. I do not know if it is untrue.
If it could be proved that post mortem Rebirth was either true or untrue beyond any doubt at all...... it would make no difference to the way I live my life. Or to the hour's Vipassana practice I do each morning and the hours practice I do each evening.
Last edited by PeterB on Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

PeterB
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:04 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:07 am

We've already had to close one topic because it got too nasty... please let's try to avoid that happening again.

:focus:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:17 am

Anna people cant share my views on the topic of post mortem Rebirth because I have no view. I simply do not know if it happens or not. I dont know how much clearer I can be. Its not a sneaky way to say that I dont believe it. I.. really ..dont.. know.
And of the Buddhists I am most influenced by there is no consensus either. Some accept PMR.. some dont..many like Ajahn Sumedho will not say. Instead they refer the question back to the questioner. Just as Ajahn Chah did before him. I suspect that Ajahn Sumedho does accept literal Rebirth..but that is me speculating.
Back in my Vajrayana days I succumbed to peer group pressure and convinced myself that I did accept PMR...but when that pressure was no longer there I realised that I didn't have the foggiest whether it was true or not.
But in that context one got social strokes for convincing oneself that it was true...and i just didn't know really.
I am simply trying to be as honest as i can.


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