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difficult situation - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

difficult situation

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:39 pm


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Vepacitta
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:53 pm

For the sake of general conversation, reference and just plain speech - use of the word "self" is okey dokey. Even the Tathagata himself used self "atta" when refering to himself or others. It's a referent.

As to unwholesome - I dunno that it's so very unskillful to use that word - it's certainly used in translation -- not everyone is/can be/ a Pali scholar.

Some people - ok - some collections of aggregates - which aren't really "people" or "beings" (because zoiks I might get flamed) can - dependent upon the confluence of conditions and tendencies running through the aggregates - and indeed supporting or conditioning those very same aggregates (hey - what about using vortex - that more acceptable than 'person" "self" "being" etc. ?) exhibit unwholesome, unskillful, or - just plain nasty, bad, unkind etc etc behaviour.

Remember Bill Clinton, "It depends upon what the meaning of "is" is? :roll:

More samsara-ing - more fabrications.

From the slopes of Mt. Meru,

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:08 pm


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dhammafriend
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhammafriend » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:19 pm

Hi everyone

Thanks a lot for the advice and suggestions! Going to have to keep it real, staying true to what I understand to be the teachings of the Buddha, upholding the precepts and staying true to myself.

Once again thank you all.
Metta
Dhammafriend
Metta
Dhammafriend

Natthi me saranam annam buddho me saranam varam
For me there is no other refuge, the Buddha is my excellent refuge.
Etena saccavajjena vaddheyyam satthu-sasane
By the utterance of this truth, may I grow in the Master’s Way.

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Vepacitta
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:20 pm

Hi, friend Vepacitta (Attn. PeterB), -

It is a debating trick, V. They use 'self' both ways -- as acceptable conventional language some time, or as non-acceptable violation of the 'anatta' principle another time-- whichever way and whenever they consider beneficial for them. Some people who study the Abhidhamma are very fond of taking a refuge in the 'anatta' principle that they interpret to mean 'no self', 'no person', 'no being'. That clinging to 'no self' sometimes effectively confuses the discussion so much that they can get away using it as a "smoke screen".
Dhamma_spoon

Hey Dhamma_Spoon.

I know! :thumbsup:

From up on Mt Meru,

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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Vepacitta
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:22 pm

I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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SDC
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:23 pm


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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:33 pm

Also because people change. They can grow to display much more wholesome qualities or become degraded and display more unwholesome qualities. So each encounter we must be patient and see the situation for how it is and accept that our current impression of someone may change with this very encounter.

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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:49 pm


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SDC
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:59 pm


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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:09 pm

Last edited by dhamma_spoon on Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SDC
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:11 pm

I would like to get to the point where this is a back and forth, one post each. So I am going to wait to till you respond to my last post before I post a gain just to make this easier.

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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:27 pm


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SDC
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:39 pm


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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:28 pm


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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:41 pm


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Vepacitta
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:16 pm

"What was Fonzie?"

"C ... cool?"

"That's right - Fonzie was cool. So that's what we're all gonna be right now. We're gonna be cool."

-Pulp Fiction

8-)

Speaking of erm - unwholesome v wholesome - I understand (really!) that people can change. Whether they actually do or not - well - it's rare in my opinion. But then I'm just a doubting asura ...
Actually, and we see it every day - even the SOBs of this world can sometimes show kindness - I have seen it during my walk on this planet. But then - I suppose it's an underlying tendency - they can devolve back into that mean (or angry, or whiny - pick a trait you don't like an insert here ______ :) ) And do you want to hang with a person like that?

O yes, understanding that they are acting the way they do (and that you to act the way you do) is due to delusions about self and how we colour our perceptions with 'self' - imbue them with self) can help one to deal with that person in a compassionate matter - with metta - and by metta I don't mean St. Francis or the Ven. Ananda (remarkably free of ego problems IMO). It means maybe one refrains from snapping at the person - one takes a breath and doesn't imbue their actions with self (Christ! I'm sick of her s...! What 'you' is there to bother - why are 'you' clinging to that noise (her yap yap yapping) for instance).

Or if someone is chronically nasty - ok - you can - through skillfull wisdom - learn not to take their nastiness personally - and get caught up in an aversion ill-will raging asura cycle - but still - you might just choose to - compassionately - not hang out with them - keep a bit of distance.

You can be nice (metta and all that) but not be stupid.

Just my two cents,

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

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SDC
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:27 pm

Last edited by SDC on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SDC
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:34 pm


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dhamma_spoon
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:49 pm

Last edited by dhamma_spoon on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.


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