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Do you believe in rebirth? - Page 8 - Dhamma Wheel

Do you believe in rebirth?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:14 pm


Anicca
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Anicca » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:37 pm


PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:54 pm

As one who is agnostic about Rebirth Anicca, I am hardly likely to be swayed by an argument for the literal existence of Stream Winners or Once Returners or the whole apparatus of Institutional religion projected backwards onto the Buddhadhamma .... am I ?

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Zom
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Zom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:01 pm


PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:10 pm

You "think " it refers somehow to past lives....OK.

On another Buddhist website I know a woman claimed she was being remade by the cosmic forces that were going to reshape the earth during 2012.....OK.

One of my neighbours thinks that the Second Coming is imminent...OK.

PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:33 pm


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Zom
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Zom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:06 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:20 pm


Shonin
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Shonin » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:24 pm

Or alien abduction for that matter? We tend to fit our experiences into whatever belief system we have.

Anicca
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Anicca » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:23 pm


Pacific
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Pacific » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:19 am

Even before coming to Buddhism, whenever I thought about death there was an idea that I had that how could you not be reborn in another place in another body with or without the same consciousness or traces of the same consciousness... so I always did believe in rebirth somewhat. In fact, it was heartening to learn that one can go beyone re-becoming... and not a surprise to discover that one is subject to birth and death in every moment....

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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Shonin » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:19 am

It seems to me that I am the offspring of a billion previous circumstances, not a single past life. And that the fruits of my kamma ripple out from my actions across the universe. This is not standard Buddhdhamma of course. However I don't see what could restrict the fruit of kamma to being purely linear. This linear view seems tied up with the idea of self as a separate individuality.

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Annapurna
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:20 am

Actually, it just occured to me that people who have issues with rebirth and think it's all just happening this one life, could still be influenced by the monotheistic views they grew up in.

One one life. Thereafter death.

Just without the notion that there are places to go to after 'resurrection'. No heaven, no hell.

Whatever you got away with in life, fraud, theft, cruelty, murder, will not bother you after death, there will be absolutely no kammic repercussions, since there are no afterlifes.

Well, if you think about it, -then all you have to do is get away with all the crimes you committed.

Enjoy the riches you have gained at the expense of others you exploited.

Enjoy the wife/husband you have because you 'stole' her/him from a partner.

I'm sure anybody would want to be a Buddhist then,

-no God who strikes you down,
-no hell to fear,
-no heaven to hope for,
-just death.

No wheel of rebirths to make your exit from.

You got away with so much.

Game over.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:20 am

Anna once more you have demonstrated your belief in Hindu Reincarnation....your post has nothing at all to do with Punarbhava as taught by the Buddha. I fear that it is going to be a long time before you see that however and in the meantime you will continue to traduce all those who do not find Hindu Reincarnation either convincing or useful.
Despite the fact that we dont see eye to eye on all subjects I find your input fresh and inspiring frequently. I admire your sturdy independence and your outspokeness.
But believe me you have not internalised punarbhava correctly.
You show the characteristic signs of the person who is enthusiastic and committed, but whose learning is a D.I.Y. job.
In one sense its no big deal. As I and others have said before its what happens on the cushion that counts. Not what belief system we have constructed.
In addition to substituting Hindu Reincarnation for punarbhava your post also makes an unwarrented assumption that those who are agnostic about post mortem punarbhava think that when you are dead you are dead. I for one dont.

PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:40 am


PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:42 am


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:44 am

before we have a rebirth of another rebirth thread full of arguments that go on for ever,let's remember to just discuss the topic at hand with out bring personal attacks into it. I'm sure there's a way to have a civil discussion of this topic :group:


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สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Zom
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Zom » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:49 am

Last edited by Zom on Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

PeterB
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:50 am

Fair enough JC..I would point out that one variety of attacking is to traduce a whole position on any given issue without naming names and instead just misrepresenting that position by unhelpful analogies.

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:06 am

that wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

also about rebirth, i have believed different versions of non literal and literal rebirth in my time as a Buddhist, progressively moving towards where i am now which is the "orthodox" position. however, i will unashamedly admit, i still have no clue how the process actually takes place. and if i try to think about it too much it does not instill any sort of confidence in me, however there are many things i use in everyday life i don't understand either, so living in a world of "hell if i know how it works" isn't such a big deal to me. also, the non literal theories are all great, and i trust them too, mainly because they are easier to see the process, they conform to a vision of the Dhamma as something that can be seen here and now and as such, believers in such theories shouldn't be belittled for their beliefs.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat


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