YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

I Believe in Literal Rebirth

Yes
44
57%
No
7
9%
Indifferent
8
10%
Undecided
11
14%
Meaning of Topic Unclear
7
9%
 
Total votes: 77

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:09 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:13 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Will
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Will » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:15 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby bodom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:16 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:20 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
beeblebrox
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:23 pm

I can understand why some people have issues with what the "literal" rebirth really means in this poll. I see two different possible interpretations (that are both literal, not momentary). I think one is bad, and the other, is probably more acceptable.

One would be reincarnation... the rebirth of a person into the next life. I suspect that many Buddhists actually believe in this, though many of them would deny it. They basically substitute "rebirth" for the "reincarnation," and they think that this makes everything OK. They're closet reincarnationists.

Before you bring in the so-called scientific evidences... just because a child remembers the events from a previous life, or adopt certain attitudes, doesn't mean that the child is literally that person. Calling this a reincarnation (i.e., the passing on of the entire person, or a self, intact), is a wrong view. This is actually based on a delusion, which is a big no-no in Buddhism.

The other interpretation would be the passing on of the conditions after you die. A different mass of aggregates picks them up, and then creates its own "personality" based on these conditions. This is a literal rebirth, isn't it?

Depending on the strength of these conditions (that was nicely made for us by some of the previous well-intentioned aggregates), some of our tendencies will be modified, or even dropped... but most of the time, these conditions probably will be modified by our other (stronger) tendencies. They get turned into something beyond recognition, or sometimes even into something evil. Trying to continue this, and hoping that it will eventually work out, is Samsara. That's why the Buddha recommended us to get out.

For this poll, I chose undecided. (I almost picked indifferent.) It's more a combination between these two. It's irrelevant to my practice. It's not something that I need to rely on by faith. It is what it is, basically.

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:25 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:38 pm

Image

I would like to have picked something other than "Meaning of Topic Unclear" but it's hard to, because if we're meant to be literal then what is the "re" in "rebirth" referring to?

The prefix "re" is "used with the meaning “again” or “again and again” to indicate repetition, or with the meaning “back” or “backward” to indicate withdrawal or backward motion: regenerate; refurbish; retype; retrace; revert".

In this context does it mean something is happening over and over again, or that something is being born over and over again? And what is that "something"? And if the "something" occurs again, is it the same as it was, and if not, what basis do we have for stating it was "re" born?

The answers to such questions would need to be clearly specified before I could give an answer... and depending on how it was specified I could probably select any of the above poll options, so I'm not just being difficult despite what someone is bound to think.

Either way, it's not a subject I'm particularly obsessed by, because I haven't invested heavily in the notion of future lives (i.e. intentionally postponing enlightenment so as to ferry all beings across to the other shore). What is good now is good for the future, whatever that may be.

beeblebrox touches on some good points above.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

lojong1
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby lojong1 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:03 am

Will, you could try putting a Pali term in the Poll--real buddhist vocab to replace rebirth--and see what happens.
The extra poll option was simply wizard, smashing good!

User avatar
Will
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Will » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:16 am

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:01 am

Always amazing to see what nitpicking can do a thread.

Here is a thread for all who wish to indulge in analysations:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5171

But don't lose the forest.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
EricJ
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby EricJ » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:27 am

I voted yes, based on my understanding that "rebirth," in a Buddhist context, refers to an impersonal process of shifting causes and conditions. There's nothing inherently special or different about the falling away and arising of depersonal aggregates when compared to other constantly changing causes and conditions in our range of experience.

I think of samsara like a really complex, constantly expanding rubix cube, a rubix cube which contains manifold other rubix cubes. Kamma is what manipulates the rubix cube. Like the rotating face of the cube, intentional action causes a change in the entire face of the cube. Rebirth is just another shift, a change in the outward appearance. Of course, the "cube" is nothing substantial or inherently real. The differentiations of color are just stickers on the surface of a blank cube, just as samsara is merely a misleading experience based in ignorance.

Regards,
Eric
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:22 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:34 am

I just popped over to ZFI to ask So-On if she knew about the origins of Jiyu Kennetts Sangha...see "Zen Thread"..I will get back with any answer..
Anyhoo while there I noticed that Will has posted an identical poll there. Its interesting.
As of a few minutes ago it stood at;

Yes.. 6
No .. 2
Indifferent.. 4
Undecided.. 0
Topic unclear. 4

Very very similar..

User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:45 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:07 am

Say a bit more JC ?

User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:11 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:18 am


User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby bodom » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:17 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:35 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 19 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine