Buddhism and Peak Oil

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mañjughoṣamaṇi
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:22 am


“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” --

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Nemo
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Nemo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:49 am

Kirtu,

Having lived off of solar power for years your ideas are fanciful and unrealistic. They would make a great cover for popular mechanics but they are completely unworkable with present technology. Since solar does not have reliable output it can only make up a small part of total power generation. The problems of energy storage and the need for redundant back ups make solar only feasible for generously 20% of total grid power. My imaginary fusion power plant that uses fuels that have no radioactive isotopes in their decay cycle is infinitely better than your imaginary solar furnaces.

The rot has already set in to our political and economic systems. The levers of power for ordinary citizens do not work. Try voting against the banks. The only escape now is in small groups making independent sustainable communities. The level of totalitarianism that will come to prevent armed insurrection will be intolerable for many people. Even though it may be preferable to the alternatives. Our society has a consumptive illness, free market capitalism without moral constraints. It is getting too late in the game since 7 billion people do too much damage to our ecology to sustain ourselves long enough to cure. The problem is ethical. Not technological. Human character has failed. Time to take refuge from Samsara. If the changes were going to happen they would have happened in the 1980's when all the current problems were foreseen. There was a revolution and we lost.

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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Aemilius » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:49 am

svaha

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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Aemilius » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:08 pm

svaha

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Nemo
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Nemo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:12 pm

You won't see an industrialized country go over 20% of power generated by PV panels. Too unreliable. Back up plants and storage are too expensive. Wind and hydro are better choices but after a certain point even these renewables are not cost effective. For the price of a storage plant you can build a generating plant. We will have mixed power generation. When technology improves then the formula changes. Solid state energy storage would be a game changer. Been chasing the dream of that for years. I don't know if we are any closer to a breakthrough. Fusion is the long term solution. Or massive depopulation.

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catmoon
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby catmoon » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:56 pm

Fusion is the long term solution? How long?

In all of history up to 1940, we added one billion humans to the planet. Since then we have added another 7 billion. If fusion were to kick in in a big way, yielding massive amounts of almost free power, we will make massive amounts of fertilizer, plastics, cars and may even return to giant gas guzzlers as all that free energy might make it economic to synthesize cheap fuel.

So it will become possible to add another 7 billion people, and another and another, which each new cohort being more technological and using far more energy than the one before.

I don't think the planet can take it. The oceans are half fished out already, agricultural land is in rapid decline in quality and quantity, and the atmosphere is overloaded with waste gases as it is.

Maybe Antarctica will become habitable. Of course, if the ice sheets melt, they will expose and entire continent's worth of untouched resources, so we'll have to have a big fat war or ten over that.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Malcolm » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:23 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Indrajala » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:54 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Indrajala » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:00 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Nemo
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Nemo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:01 pm


mañjughoṣamaṇi
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:11 pm


“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” --

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Malcolm » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:36 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Nemo
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Location: Canada

Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Nemo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:32 pm

Like how flat screen televisions were supposed to be more energy efficient. They were much more efficient at similar screen sizes. But replacing a 29 inch Trinitron with a 52 inch LCD panel didn't save a thing.

mañjughoṣamaṇi
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:15 pm

I think the affluence (measure of the ability to consume resources) in the IPAT formula was meant to partially account for this principle. I remember watching a debate between Ehrlich and a socialist of the utopian-techie variety. The socialist was saying we wouldn't need to reduce consumption because we can just improve the technology, citing catalytic converters as an example of a higher efficiency/lower impact through technology. The response was that with the increase in vehicles on the road due of the affluence of the American middle class and the growing population, the efficiency gains were undercut and the impact increased anyway.

Whether it accommodates those ideas or not, all these ideas definitely serve to undermine the idea that technological advances are a panacea for the problems of diminishing power supplies and pollution.

“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” --

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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kirtu
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby kirtu » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:26 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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kirtu
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby kirtu » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:31 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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kirtu
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby kirtu » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:45 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Indrajala » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:45 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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kirtu
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby kirtu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:44 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism and Peak Oil

Postby Indrajala » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:33 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |


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