Behaviorism and mental health

[Ervin]

Peace everyone.The following is a link to a site that contains my story, some other different views of so called mental illnesses and a recording of a conversation between my self, a psychiatris and a psych nurse at the mental clinic called Waratah thats situated in a suburb called Moone Ponds in Melbourne. The recording shows how I was well when they decided to firciblly arest me and inject me. The following is a link to the website that has that audio:

behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/forum/tel...on-thread3/#postid-4

Thanks

[catmoon]

Dead link, Ervin.

[Ervin]

Following is the audio recording link and a link to site:

http://involuntarytreatmentcase.com/

http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/f ... /#postid-4

[SteveP]

Interesting, I respect both you and your beliefs, but, for the sake of objectivity, without being pugnacious, do you think it be that your attachment to the monthesistic God is a symptom of scitzophrenia which the medication is removing? Actually...when you stop taking your medication....you have been becoming very ill....so would it not be best to stick with it for your own happiness sake?

Take care,

Steve

[spanda]

Interesting, I respect both you and your beliefs, but, for the sake of objectivity, without being pugnacious, do you think it be that your attachment to the monthesistic God is a symptom of scitzophrenia which the medication is removing? Actually...when you stop taking your medication....you have been becoming very ill....so would it not be best to stick with it for your own happiness sake?

Steve

Maybe you should read this book first:
http://www.robertwhitaker.org/robertwhi ... demic.html

Then, you will find out that, in this moment, even the greatest psychiatric establishment from USA wasn't capable to find a single long term study which could prove that Robert Whitaker conclusion are wrong! Shocking.Long term medication with antipsychotics does indeed make the situation chronic!

Take a look at this studies:
http://www.robertwhitaker.org/robertwhi ... renia.html

[SteveP]

This man has made use of statistical confounding factors to sell a convicing story to line his own pockets.

It may make sense when you read it, but bearing in mind there is a direct statistical correlation between the decline in piracy andthe rise of global warming. Of course there is a correlation with the use of drugs and the rise of mental health issues...and they may well be over prescribed....but read such texts with cynicism.

It is easy to manipulate stats when you know how.

My heart goes out to all those who suffer mental illness...those who live in mental pain all have my deepest sympathy.

I hope, Ervin, that you find some peace from your symptoms.

[SteveP]

It is also worth noting, that schitzophrenia is a chronic illness by nature, and those who find releif only do so with use of psychotics, without it your symtoms return. That the nature of the illness and it is very, very sad. Some people are lucky that their symptons never come back with the use of drugs, some unfortunatly still relapse. Those without...well they just keep getting ill.

[Ervin]

It is also worth noting, that schitzophrenia is a chronic illness by nature, and those who find releif only do so with use of psychotics, without it your symtoms return. That the nature of the illness and it is very, very sad. Some people are lucky that their symptons never come back with the use of drugs, some unfortunatly still relapse. Those without...well they just keep getting ill.

Nit true that you have to be ill if you quit antipsychotics. I had a belief in a Infinitelly loving and compassionate deistic God in the past when I would relapse. This time I became a suni Muslim when I got sick. But as soon as my illness disappeared that night I became Qurancalone Muslim wich is A lot more liberal. Now I am a some sort of a Deist. I would have become s deist I believe even without the medication. It was just a matter of time.

As far as jot living without medication have you seen the movie: A beautiful mind with Rusel Crowe. Many people end up living without medication and hsymptom free. You just have to have a little bit more faith I. Doing goo and the higher power.

Thanks

[spanda]

It is also worth noting, that schitzophrenia is a chronic illness by nature

The most extended study on Schizophrenia until now is Martin Harrow 15 years outcome study. (It’s the only one of this kind)
And the result contradicts everything you wrote.

http://www.accessibilitynews.ca/cwdo/ac ... health=126

Also take a look at this:

"The first World Health Organization study that compared schizophrenia outcomes in "developed" and "developing" countries was called The International Pilot Study of Schizophrenia. It began in 1968, and involved 1202 patients in nine countries. At both two-year and five-year follow-ups, the patients in the poor countries were doing much better. The researchers concluded that schizophrenia patients in the poor countries "had a considerably better course and outcome than (patients) in developed countries. This remained true whether clinical outcomes, social outcomes, or a combination of the two was considered." Two-thirds of the patients in India and Nigeria were asymptomatic at the end of five years. The WHO investigators, however, were unable to identify a variable that explained this notable difference in outcomes.

The second WHO study of this type was called the Determinants of Outcome of Severe Mental Disorders. It involved 1379 patients from 10 countries, and was designed as a follow-up study to the International Pilot Study of Schizophrenia. The patients in this study were first-episode patients, and 86% had been ill fewer than 12 months. This study confirmed the findings of the first: two-year outcomes were much better for the patients in the poor countries. In broad terms, 37 percent of the patients in the poor countries (India, Nigeria and Colombia) had a single psychotic episode and then fully recovered; another 26.7% of the patients in the poor countries had two or more psychotic episodes but still were in "complete remission" at the end of the two years. In other words, 63.7% of the patients in the poor countries were doing fairly well at the end of two years. In contrast, only 36.9% of the patients in the U.S. and six other developed countries were doing fairly well at the end of two years. The researchers concluded that "being in a developed country was a strong predictor of not attaining a complete remission."

Although the WHO researchers didn't identify a variable that would explain this difference in outcomes, they did note that in the developing countries, only 15.9% of patients were continuously maintained on neuroleptics, compared to 61% of patients in the U.S. and other developed countries."



Also, one of the psychiatrist who is a member of White House mental Health commission, is an ex-schizophrenia pacients (which in your unfounded opinion, is "chronic":)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/496394

http://akmhcweb.org/recovery/My_Story.htm

But the most serious proves and data’s come from Finland (Open Project), where a new approach has virtually eliminated new cases of schizophrenia from developing in West Lapland, in a population of 72,000 over a 10 year period. Their use of medication and hospitalization is about 20% that seen in other industrialized countries! There are enough studies on this already:

http://www.power2u.org/alternatives-to- ... ation.html

Obviously, to stop the medication of a patient, who has taken them for months and years it's stupid! It could take years to stop them completely, working with a psychiatrist, because of risks of Neuroleptic-Induced Supersensitivity Psychosis, etc, and then, you should replace them with other kinds of treatments (for example finish system, which until now is by far the most efficient in the world, if you consider the results), until full recovery. And of course, not in all cases, there is the possibility of complete recovery.

Maybe you just study more, and to study the facts:

[spanda]

Also, regarding the movie "The beautiful Mind" . John Nash recovered from schizophrenia, but without medication. The story told in the movie was changed from the real events to create a politically correct view of mental illness being that one must take psychiatric drugs for the rest of one’s life. John Nash, instead, only took drugs for a brief period during crisis and then lived the great majority of his life without psychotropic medication. Take a look at this video interview with him:

http://beyondmeds.com/2009/03/26/revolu ... thfulness/

http://beyondmeds.com/2011/01/10/johnnashvideo/

Pure facts

[AlexanderS]

Psychiatry if horrible in my experience. Having taken anti-depressants, has made everything horribly worse for me, and has created several conditions that I did not have before. It's also made it pretty much impossible for me to ever make any authentic progress with dharma practice in this life.

[SteveP]

Yes you can recover from schitzophrenia...depends on what you have.

You dont neccesarily have to take them your whole life, but they should help. Sometimes, they have horrible side effects, this is also true, and it the job of the doctor to decide if the potential benefits outway the negatives, which sadly, for some people it does. A good doctor should work with the patient and not against them, and the patient should be as much a part of the decisions as the doctor, circumstances permiting.

Steve X

[catmoon]

I have an had an interesting experience with anti depressants over the years. I started at 20 mg a day, then 40 then 60. The crisis period passed and then I started developing anxiety disorders and temper problems. Several times I went off the meds, and my mood just crashed. After about ten years of that, I decided that going off meds was bad, and being on full dose was almost as bad.

So, for the last ten years, I have taken just enough to stave off withdrawal symptoms. That means splitting a pill in half and taking it every few days. Eventually the problems start to return, and at that point I start taking my half pill daily, usually only for three days or so, the back on the low low dose again. This has worked pretty well for me. Your mileage will probably vary.

[SteveP]

Sorry to hear you have been struggling catmoon.

[catmoon]

Sorry to hear you have been struggling catmoon.

It's not all downside. I get a certain amount of solitude, I'm free from family commitments and have little else to do besides read, practice and meditate. I also spend a fair amount of time chitchatting in coffee shops.

[YesheDron'May]

Sorry to hear you have been struggling catmoon.

It's not all downside. I get a certain amount of solitude, I'm free from family commitments and have little else to do besides read, practice and meditate. I also spend a fair amount of time chitchatting in coffee shops.

Sorry to hear this , I think allot of people are like me and are dragging around pain and sadness from past lives . They say if you die when your sad you still have to sort through that pain in the afterlife and in future lives . I am lucky to remember my past lives it makes it way easier to work things through . Have you ever thought about weather or not your depression is something you need to sort out from a past life ? I guess in the end it doesn't matter what life its from you just have to breath in and out and feel it completely and acknowledge in order to process it and work it through . Best of luck to you and your story is a real inspiration to me Yeshe

[SamBodhi]

catmoon,

you described my experience nearly to every detail. good to know that I am not alone in that.

S

[catmoon]

It pleases me no end to know that something I posted might have been of some benefit to someone. Thanks for mentioning it.

[Ervin]

I have found out that the psychs will I think never let you voluntarily "quit" their help and their drugs. Also the mental health review board will only take you of the community treatment order if you say and convince them that you believe that you can't live a good, safe, etc life without their drugs wich means that they only exist to give people a false sense of us having rights because the doctors psychiatrists can take you of the order without the board.

Someone who knows has told me that the only way to get them and their drugs out of your life is to contest their decision(wich is always the same for everyone) at s court called VCAT wich is situated in Melbourne city and it will take a considerable time and many appeals before it can happen.

Thanks