Western Buddhists, modernity and the European enlightenment

[Thug4lyfe]

I guess it's early days yet. The day when it's deeply rooted and likes of Alan Watt and Stephen Bachelor have lost their power to confuse new leaners!

sighhhhh

[Astus]

You should visit Komazawa University. There is a lot of modernism and self-identifying Zen Buddhists there and not so much zazen going on.

It might sound strange, but seated meditation hasn't been the focus of Zen in most of its lineages and teachings.

[Indrajala]

You should visit Komazawa University. There is a lot of modernism and self-identifying Zen Buddhists there and not so much zazen going on.

It might sound strange, but seated meditation hasn't been the focus of Zen in most of its lineages and teachings.

Well, as I've said here before, I think Zen has largely been a literary movement.

[Zenshin 善心]

All teachings spring from dzogchen, it is the source of all teachings, and the place to which all teachings return.

N

hi Namdrol, this is an interesting statement. when you say it, are you meaning all Vajrayana teachings, all tantric teachings or all Buddhadharma teachings, period? if the latter, care to elaborate a little in layman's terms? cheers.

[Malcolm]

All teachings spring from dzogchen, it is the source of all teachings, and the place to which all teachings return.

N

hi Namdrol, this is an interesting statement. when you say it, are you meaning all Vajrayana teachings, all tantric teachings or all Buddhadharma teachings, period? if the latter, care to elaborate a little in layman's terms? cheers.

All dharma teachings. All dharma teachings arise from the need to educate people about their real state. That real state is called "Dzogchen". Some teachings are more direct, some are less so, but in the end, that is the state they are all pointing at, whether directly or indirectly.

Of course, dzogchen teachings temselves point to this state in the most direct way.

[Zenshin 善心]

All teachings spring from dzogchen, it is the source of all teachings, and the place to which all teachings return.

N

hi Namdrol, this is an interesting statement. when you say it, are you meaning all Vajrayana teachings, all tantric teachings or all Buddhadharma teachings, period? if the latter, care to elaborate a little in layman's terms? cheers.

All dharma teachings. All dharma teachings arise from the need to educate people about their real state. That real state is called "Dzogchen".

gotcha, thanks. so would it be fair to say Dzogchen views all schools favourably then although it perhaps views itself as the pinnacle or ultimate?

[Malcolm]

gotcha, thanks. so would it be fair to say Dzogchen views all schools favourably then although it perhaps views itself as the pinnacle or ultimate?

Dzogchen regards all vehicles favorably and perceives itself as the final meaning of all Buddhist, as well as non-Buddhist, teachings.

[Zenshin 善心]

Dzogchen regards all vehicles favorably and perceives itself as the final meaning of all Buddhist, as well as non-Buddhist, teachings.

cool, thanks for the info.

as well as non-Buddhist,

really? mind blown a little i have to say! i'll enquire further about this when i'm a bit less tired and know what it is i want to ask exactly. sorry for taking things a tad everyone.

[Thug4lyfe]

Dzogchen regards all vehicles favorably and perceives itself as the final meaning of all Buddhist, as well as non-Buddhist, teachings.

Isn't that the same thing what most other Mahayana schools are teaching? If all Dharma gates are equal, why does it sound like your trying to say Dzogchen is da best au? Know wat im sayin?

[Astus]

Well, as I've said here before, I think Zen has largely been a literary movement.

Actually, if you think about, there's lot more to Zen than its literature. It has unique ritualistic aspects, organisational forms, etc.

[Astus]

Isn't that the same thing what most other Mahayana schools are teaching? If all Dharma gates are equal, why does it sound like your trying to say Dzogchen is da best au? Know wat im sayin?

Sectarian thinking never becomes outdated.

[Malcolm]

Isn't that the same thing what most other Mahayana schools are teaching? If all Dharma gates are equal, why does it sound like your trying to say Dzogchen is da best au? Know wat im sayin?

Sectarian thinking never becomes outdated.

Some people might think that is what is behind my statement, but they would be mistaken.

[Beatzen]

I don't think what N is saying is sectarian. He's probably right, though anyone (like me) who isn't a tantric yogi(ni) would never know otherwise.

That's what makes it seem sectarian.

Personally, I think Satipatthana is the essence of all dharma paths, both hina and mahayana.

Then again, I'm a student of zen, so I take the path as result instead of the result as path.

[Malcolm]

really?

Really.

Though my vehicles are inconceivable,
they are included in two categories:
samsara and nirvana.

--Rig pa rang shar tantra, the main explanatory tantra of Dzogchen.

[treehuggingoctopus]

really?

Really.

Though my vehicles are inconceivable,
they are included in two categories:
samsara and nirvana.

--Rig pa rang shar tantra, the main explanatory tantra of Dzogchen.

Wow.

[Virgo]

I don't think what N is saying is sectarian. He's probably right, though anyone (like me) who isn't a tantric yogi(ni) would never know otherwise.

That's what makes it seem sectarian.

Personally, I think Satipatthana is the essence of all dharma paths, both hina and mahayana.

Then again, I'm a student of zen, so I take the path as result instead of the result as path.

There is no Satipatthana of any kind without learning. Everything stems from learning.

Kevin

[Zenshin 善心]

really?

Really.

Though my vehicles are inconceivable,
they are included in two categories:
samsara and nirvana.

--Rig pa rang shar tantra, the main explanatory tantra of Dzogchen.

Wow.

isn't it! i'm going to start a new thread to go into this a bit deeper.

[Beatzen]

I guess it's early days yet. The day when it's deeply rooted and likes of Alan Watt and Stephen Bachelor have lost their power to confuse new leaners!

sighhhhh

Not everything that Alan Watts wrote and said was misleading. I think one of the most beneficial things I picked up from him was "meditate because you like meditating" - for no other purpose.

[kirtu]

You should visit Komazawa University. There is a lot of modernism and self-identifying Zen Buddhists there and not so much zazen going on.

It might sound strange, but seated meditation hasn't been the focus of Zen in most of its lineages and teachings.

But it has been with some particular teachers throughout Zen history.

Kirt

[kirtu]

You should visit Komazawa University. There is a lot of modernism and self-identifying Zen Buddhists there and not so much zazen going on.

It might sound strange, but seated meditation hasn't been the focus of Zen in most of its lineages and teachings.

Well, as I've said here before, I think Zen has largely been a literary movement.

(has the bell rung yet?)

Kirt