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Moment to moment rebirth - Dhamma Wheel

Moment to moment rebirth

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Annapurna
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Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:22 pm

Sorry....no offense intended, but that sounds like a shicky micky cool Zennie new age drivel to me, because we only continue to live from moment to moment, until this complex bioorganism gives up the spirit for good and falls apart.

It doesn't go full cycle from moment to moment.

There is no complex "death-life-death-life-death-life-every-second-syndrome", that is, imo, just an attempt to hush up a disability to grasp the Buddhas teachings.

Why not just say:

I don't get it? It escapes me? It's ok!

I could respect that a lot more than "moment to moment rebirth"....

8-)

Again, no offense intended, but think about it...

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:29 pm

Greetings Anna,

It's hard to comment on your post because it seems to conflate and misrepresent a few rather complex issues, in my opinion.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:03 pm


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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Jason » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:59 pm

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby 5heaps » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:39 pm

a thing doesnt have the power to endure for a second moment because it's dependent upon causes and conditions, and those causes and conditions are constantly changing.

on the other hand its not as though you are bob in one moment and then jim in the next.. there is still some sort of continuation possible whilst adhering to the above law of dependent arising. therefore its not entirely correct to say you die each moment, because then it would mean bob somehow became jim, when really its still just bob there. in fact theres some kind of truth about bob that youre trying to find and you ruin it by just saying that bob becomes jim. bob becomes jim is not profound.
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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby lojong1 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:48 am

Moment to moment Jaati?
* birth from an egg--like a bird, fish, or reptile;
* birth from a womb—like most mammals and some worldly devas;
* birth from moisture—probably referring to the appearance of animals whose eggs are microscopic, like maggots appearing in rotting flesh;
* birth by transformation—miraculous materialization, as with most devas.

Doesn't seem to fit.

Moment to moment something else?

Bloody 'rebirth'! Bloody vague English language! Pops my buttons, it does.

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Goedert » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:35 am


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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:59 am

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:12 am


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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 am

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:22 am

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:34 am

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:40 am

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby PeterB » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:00 am

Anna I think you are perilously close to saying that those who do not accept literal post mortem rebirth are taking that position because they dont understand the teachings of the Buddha.
If you look through the "sister" thread to this you will find some very experienced Buddhists who are expressing agnosticism about literal punarbhava after death. They include people who quite clearly have a depth understanding of the Buddhas teaching.
One pf the greatest teachers of modern times Ajahn Buddhadasa considered the belief in literal post mortem punarbhava to be itself a misunderstanding of the Buddhas teaching..he taught that only moment to moment rebirth without speculation was consistent with Dhamma. You dont have to agree with him,although as it happens I do, to see that there is a strong case held by many practitioners of Buddhadhamma for agnosticism about the issue, and that it too simple to assume that they have not understood. Many have understood very clearly and reached a different conclusion to yours.
Last edited by PeterB on Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby ground » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:19 am

"Moment to moment rebirth" does not appear to be a consistent expression.

Is moment meant to negate "continuum" (or "life")?
If yes, neither is there a "continuum" (i.e. "life") that can be perceived nor is there a "moment" that can be perceived. But both, a "continuum" (i.e. "life") and a "moment" can be conceptually constructed and thus are within the range of conventional language. So why prefer "moment" to "life" if both are equally invalid (or conventionally valid)?

"re-birth" implies being "born again" but when did the preceding birth take place if "moment" is intended to negate "continuum" (i.e. "life")?

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby PeterB » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:31 am

You are quite right..its shorthand. As you say in the parent thread to this the whole issue stems from a misunderstanding or incomplete or conventional view of time.

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:49 am

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PeterB
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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby PeterB » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:01 pm

After a number of decades of pondering the Suttas and attending quite a few retreats and having had glimpses of the truth of Dukkha Anicca and Anatta I have no idea whether punarbhava applies to post mortem states. But I have no doubt that it applies to pre-mortem states.
I am not suggesting that you accept the word of those who are agnostic re punarbhava. or that you accept the word of those who accept the idea of post mortem punarbhava literally. Its entirely a matter for you. I am just saying that among " serious" Buddhists including those who have spent much time in meditation and who have a thorough grasp of the Pali, like Kare, both views exist. I have seen very few Buddhists in any situation who deny the possibility of post mortem punarbhava, but I know many respectable, learned, devout, practising Buddhists who are agnostic on the issue.

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:49 pm

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Re: Moment to moment rebirth

Postby PeterB » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:07 pm

The situation for me Anna was that for a long time the Rebirth issue was a barrier to accepting the truth of Buddhadhamma. Then it stopped being a barrier..then more time went past and it seemed as a literal issue to be less and less important. The truths of dependent origination, of the three signs etc etc were not it seems to me dependant on the literal truth of post mortem punarbhava.
So if a literal belief is important to some, then I have no argument with them on the issue.

On the other hand I have enough in this life to be getting on with..... :anjali:


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