Putting someone out of their misery

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Inge
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Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Inge » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:43 am

I brought the injured rabbit to the vet today. Her wound was so deep and infected that he gave her no chance of recovery, and advised strongly to kill her - claiming it would be animal abuse to allow her to die a slow "natural" death at home.

So from the point of view of what is best for the rabbit, what is the correct thing to do?

I brought her home, to give antibiotics and pain relief, but I don't know what is best for her.

If you have some knowledge of the subject, please respond quickly.

Thanks.

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Dechen Norbu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:06 pm

It's very hard to say.
I think your choice was right.
Pain killers help in this situation and I assume it will be better for your pet to be around someone who cares.

Putting a being to death is just the ending of the current problems. As the materialistic approach assumes that all ends with death, pain would also end.
However, according to the Buddhist perspective, particularly the Tibetan schools, such is not the case. A death in a strange environment, stressful, can launch the being to a nasty experience in the bardo.
So if your bunny dies in a calm environment, with minimal pain and being good taken care of, that would be good.
Perhaps you even save it, who knows?

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Dechen Norbu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:09 pm

Just be sure you give it adequate pain killers and antibiotics in the appropriate dose for its weight. Otherwise they won't help much by one side or you end up killing the rabbit yourself by the other. Were you properly informed about the dosages by the vet?

Arnoud
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Arnoud » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:23 pm

I say to put her down. You can make such decisions for yourself (i.e. you want to suffer through the karma) but I don't think you can nor should make that decision for other beings. Just like I believe Christians should not be able to prohibit abortion for others just because they believe it is a sin.

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Dechen Norbu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Clarence, you say put her down because you don't want the animal to suffer, right? You believe it will ease the pain if the being dies.
Well, pain killers do just that and you give the animal a better death. This is not a matter of imposing beliefs, but of avoiding the risks that a certain action carries.
You can't be sure what will happen after death. What you know is that if you kill the animal, any chance of helping it will be lost as you won't be able to make contact with it.
If the purpose is to avoid pain and for such effect you recommend death, I say better using pain killers. You get the same effect plus the possibility of taking care of the animal until its life ends. It's quite stressful for the animal to be killed in a strange environment in the vet's room. If she manages to keep the pain away and allows a more tranquil death in a known environment, I think that would be better.

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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Arnoud » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:50 pm


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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Dechen Norbu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:09 pm


Arnoud
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Arnoud » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:38 pm


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Paul
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Paul » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:03 pm

Personally, I think it's treading on dangerous ground to start saying "it's better that you die" for another being. I really don't like the idea. There is some parallel with the issue of euthanasia here in the UK which seems to be becoming framed as "when is a person's life not worth living?" - something I'd rather not have someone else decide for me, that's for certain. I also am not sure of the value of rushing something that is inevitable anyway.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Dechen Norbu » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:17 pm


Arnoud
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Arnoud » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:42 pm

Thank you DN. I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I will think about this some more when the time arises. You bring up some good points. I hope, with you, that Inge's rabbit will be relieved of his/her suffering soon--no matter the way in which it happens.

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Inge
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Inge » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:51 pm


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Inge
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Inge » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:01 pm


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Inge
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Inge » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:08 pm


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Beatzen
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Beatzen » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:16 pm

"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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Inge
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Inge » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Is it not one correct way to deal with such situations? Even among buddist teachers there seem to be no agreement of what is the right thing to do. For instance Hsuan Hua have said that in the animals fundamental consciousness they will know if you decide to end their life, and they will be very disappointed with you. And I heard about another teacher who wanted all his students to follow his example of ending the life of injured animals.

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Beatzen
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Beatzen » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:30 pm

In the case of humans, it's simpler. Legislating for assisted suicide might spare lots of people from unimaginable pain. But with animals, I think this shows the hidden danger of domestication and keeping pets. You become responsible for them in ways that inhibit their freedom as a sentient being. I believe they are reborn as animals because they like to spend most of their time making themselves comfortable. Looking for food, proper shelter, mates. In this way animals are very self absorbed and dull.

Many humans emulate animals in this way. They may be reborn as animals.

In closing, I think the moral is not to keep pets for exactly this reason.
"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
- Eihei Dogen Zenji

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wisdom
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby wisdom » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:08 am

Would you want someone to put you down, just give up and be like "yeah, hes a goner..." or would you want someone to try to save your life even if the chances were slim? I say, go with the painkillers and antibiotics. Also you could perform tonglen as well as meditate on it being better, being free from pain, and so forth. You could make an offering to medicine Buddha and pray to him to help. If nothing else animals can feel our emotions towards them, if you are loving towards it, that might give it the right kind of energy to live, or at least when it dies have a better rebirth.

Edit: Now I read the part about semi-wild. Still, I say do what you can.

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Thug4lyfe
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby Thug4lyfe » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:42 pm

Best thing to do is to chant the Buddha's name to da soon to die, not to mention commit meritrious deeds on their behalf!
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AdmiralJim
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Re: Putting someone out of their misery

Postby AdmiralJim » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:49 am

How do we know this illness is the result of karma? I remember an interesting discussion about euthanasia in another forum and it amazes me the stance of some people, it reminds me of Jainism - which the Buddha rejected.
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there


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