Smoking tobacco

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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:32 pm


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catmoon
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby catmoon » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:43 pm

Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:12 pm


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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:20 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Grigoris » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:21 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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wisdom
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby wisdom » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:16 pm

A balanced view comes with balanced consumption. Its possible to look at addiction to smoking in a balanced way, but balanced does not mean that the good and bad are weighed equally, only that the point of view from which one analyzes is a balanced point of view. In this case we can disregard notions of good and evil, which are abandoned by the time we reach Vajrayana anyways where all things are to be seen as pure, coupled with the compassion derived on the Mahayana path, we should in fact feel compassion for smokers, for their plight and misfortune in having become attached to smoking, and even for the demon that lives in tobacco, and the being that made that curse and has inflicted so much harm and generated so much negative karma for itself. Thats my opinion at least, take it with a grain of salt though because in terms of Vajrayana and Buddhism in general I am a total newbie.

The main benefit a smoker derives from smoking is that it helps them not experience the poison of anger and irritability, which in turn can harm other as well. Unfortunately the best benefit also arises from having become addicted in the first place. The second benefit may well be concentration, however whether or not that now arises as a result of satisfying the addiction or not is hard to say. Many drugs have a positive effect like this which goes away after a short period of time but which *appears* to still be present. For example, Marijuana can make you more creative, and give you insight into life problems. However, those benefits deteriorate quickly when used on a daily basis, even though people still think they are more creative, all that creativity is left behind, and instead they are just sitting around doing mundane things and not paying attention to reality.

However looking at all the negative effects of smoking also comes under a balanced view, because the balanced view doesn't ignore so called good or bad qualities in anything, but looks at all with a discerning and discriminating mind, examining the conventional nature of a thing without attaching to the various manifestations of that thing as being either good or bad, as something to accept or to reject. All the negative effects have already been outlined in the thread.

Now if a person smoked on great occasion, once every couple of weeks, like someone who drank or smoked pot in a balanced manner might do, then those health dangers would no longer really be present. A cigarette or two once in awhile is highly unlikely to kill you, at least no more than doing anything else that has been shown to "cause cancer" which includes almost everything under the sun at this point. Then we can still take that balanced view and apply it to the new level of smoking, and see that the benefits of smoking still exist, while the harmful effects are gone. Whether or not the harmful effects of practice would still exist if someone smoked only on great occasion is debatable. I think the reason for the termas and such arose as a result of how addictive and harmful the substance became when it was used additively. Otherwise I think smoking would be classed with sex and alcohol. Something thats OK for laypeople but for those of more strict vows is not OK to do. However, because of its highly addictive and harmful nature, a different view has formed around it. Yet, very rare is the person who really can only smoke one or two cigarettes every couple weeks. For the most part that becomes smoking half a pack for days on end, or outright addiction again, or whatever. If it was really done only on occasion, and one really had the discipline to pull that off, then it could actually (in my limited opinion) be incorporated into our Vajrayana practice as a kind of seeing what is considered conventionally to be impure as pure, of transforming even that demonic substance into gold. It could also be a kind of Chod practice, having compassion for the demon in tobacco and offering oneself to that demon with absolute bodhicitta. Yet of course again what I'm saying is just me going off about things I only barely understand, as well anyone attempting to do this, even if what I'm saying is legitimate, would have to be *very* careful that they were not just carrying on with their addiction thinking that it was Vajrayana, as is often the danger in Vajrayana it seems.

In essence, a really balanced view comes with really balanced use. Unbalanced use when looked at with a balanced view reveals the numerous harmful affects, and those greatly outweigh the benefits.

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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:29 pm


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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Jangchup Donden » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:28 pm


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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby wisdom » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:12 am


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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:37 am


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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby wisdom » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:52 am


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Jangchup Donden
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Jangchup Donden » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:58 am


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Konchog1
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:26 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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Adamantine
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Adamantine » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:28 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby heart » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:30 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby heart » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:12 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Adamantine
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Adamantine » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:58 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Lingpupa
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Lingpupa » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:10 am

All the best
Alex Wilding
"Kathmandu report" at
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Benchen and Back digital edition still on Amazon - see

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Grigoris
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:31 am

Ahhh... Gendun Chopel! Everybody's favorite mad Maoist monk (and an avid smoker, drinker and fornicator!)
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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Adamantine
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Re: Smoking tobacco

Postby Adamantine » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:35 am

Nah, this isn't grafted onto Dudjom Lingpa.

Smoking tobacco was introduced to China in the 16th century. The introduction of this technique is what led Chinese people to begin smoking opium instead of just ingesting it. So smoking tobacco already started to pervade China all the way back then and influenced the culture greatly. Then in 1858 the Treaty of Tianjin allowed cigarettes to be imported into China duty-free, and the distribution was exponentially increased.

Dudjom Lingpa was not some ordinary person. He wasn't picking up a habit for the hell of it. He knew how more and more pervasive it was going to become and he was engaging in bodhisattva conduct. Do you really think it would have been hard for him to procure cigarettes?

Let's not be so small minded.

I was told this account directly from a Dudjom family member.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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