mint wrote:I'm reminded of the very beginning of Chogyam Trungpa's Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism where he talks about the accumulation of religion and wisdom the way some people collect antiques: eventually you end up with a junk shop.
mindyourmind wrote:If you accept the god of the Bible he is not a very live and let live type of guy, if you start watering down and re-interpreting that god as you please, as Knitter seems to be doing, then you end up with a buffet style religion that is so vague as to be meaningless. So, on both counts I do not see the point.
Knitter forces some really square pegs into round holes with his forced chapter style of taking a teaching from the one tradition and then "going over" and applying it to the other tradition.
We must not confuse acceptance, tolerance and religious freedom with a mix-and-match do-it-yourself religion.
Of course, Knitter takes many of his cues from Thich Nhat Hahn. .
mindyourmind wrote:For me the significant difference lies in the fact that TNH is a Buddhist that is ecumenical, that tries to build bridges, while Knitter is really a Christian that uses his selective cherry picking of the Dharma to plug the holes in his own chosen religion.
mint wrote: Even today, many Shambhala practitioners are shocked to discover how non-Buddhist some of the Shambhala training is.
justsit wrote:mint wrote: Even today, many Shambhala practitioners are shocked to discover how non-Buddhist some of the Shambhala training is.
Hardly shocked - Shambhala training was designed to be secular.
From Wiki, quoting Rose Gimian (2006) "Shambhala Training is a secular approach to meditation developed by the late Tibetan Buddhist teacher Chogyam Trungpa and his students. It is based on what Trungpa calls Shambhala Vision, which sees enlightened society as not purely mythical, but as realizable by people of all faiths through practices of mindfulness/awareness, non-aggression, and sacred outlook."
I don't think Knitter is the first to reinterpret the god of the Bible. The god of the Bible is not a static character at all due to the continual development (understanding?) of that god's character as the different books of the Bible were written. Jack Miles' biography makes that pretty evident, I think. So, re-interpretation of that god goes back to the foundations of biblical religion itself.
mint wrote:Knitter is far from alone. While it's no revolution, by any means, more and more Christians are finding clarity about their own beliefs through Zen meditation. These are all older articles:
Without Christ there wouldn't be Christianity, but without Buddha, Buddhism would still exist. Since all the teachings were already there, the Truths, Buddha just made them more clear to understand
justsit wrote:Shambhala training was profitable to me, as it taught me the basics of how to meditate. Yes, I paid money. No, AFAIK the teachers were not paid. They were all card-carrying Buddhists, many former Trungpa students. Fees went to pay center upkeep expenses. They did mention ground, path, and fruition, but I had no clue what they were talking about, and no one mentioned Buddha. We were, however, meditating in a shrine room.
It was a good jumping off point, IMO, but not a place to settle. That said, I will always be grateful for their teachings.
Regarding the OP - to paraphrase an old story, if you want to dig a well, you don't dig a bunch of shallow holes, you dig one hole deeper and deeper until you hit water.
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