the great vegetarian debate

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:18 pm

If a being takes birth as an animal,
supposedly this is the result of some previous karma.
This being could spend many years an animal,
enduring all the sufferings of the animal realm.
But, possibly, when it is still young,
this animal could be killed and eaten by another animal
such as a bipedal primate
and soon take rebirth as a human
and study dharma.
So, you never know when you might be doing a hamburger a big favor.
.
.
.
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Re: 3 Weeks Vegan

Postby Jikan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Nemo wrote:When I get in the mood to lose weight I force my body into ketogenesis. I lose about a pound a day. Test strips are about 3$. You can get them with the B12.


Is this as simple as ingesting positively no carbs at all?
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:12 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:If a being takes birth as an animal,
supposedly this is the result of some previous karma.
This being could spend many years an animal,
enduring all the sufferings of the animal realm.
But, possibly, when it is still young,
this animal could be killed and eaten by another animal
such as a bipedal primate
and soon take rebirth as a human
and study dharma.
So, you never know when you might be doing a hamburger a big favor.


Hmm. This might be your last life as a human before you attain Buddhahood. Mind if I hurry it along a bit? I'm so hungry.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:16 pm

catmoon wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:If a being takes birth as an animal,
supposedly this is the result of some previous karma.
This being could spend many years an animal,
enduring all the sufferings of the animal realm.
But, possibly, when it is still young,
this animal could be killed and eaten by another animal
such as a bipedal primate
and soon take rebirth as a human
and study dharma.
So, you never know when you might be doing a hamburger a big favor.


Hmm. This might be your last life as a human before you attain Buddhahood. Mind if I hurry it along a bit? I'm so hungry.


I hope you like barbeque. I am destined for many hell realms first.
but I never read any sutra that specifically prohibited cannibalism,
so grab a fork.
:popcorn:
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:18 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
I hope you like barbeque. I am destined for many hell realms first.
but I never read any sutra that specifically prohibited cannibalism,
so grab a fork.
:popcorn:


It is prohibited in Vinaya, along with the meat of predators and so on.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:25 pm

Namdrol wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
I hope you like barbeque. I am destined for many hell realms first.
but I never read any sutra that specifically prohibited cannibalism,
so grab a fork.
:popcorn:


It is prohibited in Vinaya, along with the meat of predators and so on.


Oh well. That just leaves more for everybody else i suppose.

Thanks for the info!
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:37 pm

http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Virgo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:34 am

Namdrol wrote:http://www.grist.org/list/2012-01-12-american-beef-consumption-is-at-a-50-year-low

Dear Loppon,

Is that because of Eco-nomics? :rolling:

:D
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Virgo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:09 pm

Namdrol wrote:In the US, there is trend for yoga practicing Buddhists to eschew eating meat. Also amongst some younger Tibetan Buddhists there is a trend to stop eating meat -- which is ironic, because virtually all instructions of yantra and tummo recommend that one eat some meat, especially lamb and yak, which are quite warming.

Hey Loppon, what about elk and venison?

Thanks,
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Virgo wrote:
Namdrol wrote:In the US, there is trend for yoga practicing Buddhists to eschew eating meat. Also amongst some younger Tibetan Buddhists there is a trend to stop eating meat -- which is ironic, because virtually all instructions of yantra and tummo recommend that one eat some meat, especially lamb and yak, which are quite warming.

Hey Loppon, what about elk and venison?

Thanks,
Kev


Both pretthy warming, as is bison.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Virgo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:32 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Both pretthy warming, as is bison.

Thank you.

I just had some elk stew and the meat seemed quite warming, though of course the stew was spiced quite well, the flavour of the meat was a warming one.

It's good to know as I don't eat lamb.

Warming is not what I need now though.
Anyway :oops:

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby kirtu » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:56 pm

Virgo wrote:
Namdrol wrote:http://www.grist.org/list/2012-01-12-american-beef-consumption-is-at-a-50-year-low

Dear Loppon,

Is that because of Eco-nomics? :rolling:

:D


Apparently not just because of economics. It appears to be a long term trend.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Virgo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:57 pm

kirtu wrote:
Virgo wrote:
Namdrol wrote:http://www.grist.org/list/2012-01-12-american-beef-consumption-is-at-a-50-year-low

Dear Loppon,

Is that because of Eco-nomics? :rolling:

:D


Apparently not just because of economics. It appears to be a long term trend.

Kirt

Excellent.

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Re: 3 Weeks Vegan

Postby KeithBC » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:44 am

Sherab wrote:Isn't B12 naturally produced by the body?

No, B12 is produced by yeasts and bacteria. It is true that bacteria in the lower gut produce it, but it is too far downstream to be absorbed by the human body. We require it in our diet.

When people get it from animal sources, it is in fact bacterial B12 that the animals obtained from their diet and stored in their tissues.
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Veganism?

Postby Ervin » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:21 am

Peace. I am guessing that plant base food doesn't feel pain when eaten. I suppose plants don't have a nervous system to process pain. Wouldn't it be like cuting your nails or hair when we do it to fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc. Plants don't have brains also to process pain.

I would say that it would mean that we are more compassionate if we where vegan for the reasons I mentioned. Yet sometimes I think it might be ok to eat meat. I suppose the monotheistic teachings say that you can eat animals.

So what do you think? Is it more compassionate to be vegan?

And if and or since you don't believe in monotheism where do you get moral authority from to eat animals and their products?

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Re: Veganism?

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:10 am

It is also compassionate to be a vegetarian and is easier to maintain in the long run.
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Re: Veganism?

Postby Indrajala » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:00 am

Ervin wrote:Peace. I am guessing that plant base food doesn't feel pain when eaten. I suppose plants don't have a nervous system to process pain. Wouldn't it be like cuting your nails or hair when we do it to fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc. Plants don't have brains also to process pain.

I would say that it would mean that we are more compassionate if we where vegan for the reasons I mentioned. Yet sometimes I think it might be ok to eat meat. I suppose the monotheistic teachings say that you can eat animals.

So what do you think? Is it more compassionate to be vegan?


Veganism has a history of existing in East Asia. Not in India, though, where dairy is as common as table salt.

The justification for not eating eggs was that it qualified, according to some, as theft. Dairy was not widely consumed in East Asian countries up until a few decades ago. Hence a lot of Buddhists who abstained from fish and meats were effectively vegan.

In our present day where dairy production is just as cruel and harsh to animals as industrial meat production, abstaining from dairy for both ethical and health reasons is best, unless you are sure where your dairy products are coming from. Keep in mind though a dairy cow that stops producing milk is of little use and will probably be put to death.

And if and or since you don't believe in monotheism where do you get moral authority from to eat animals and their products?


I don't think Buddhists who eat meat or dairy think about having a moral authority to consume such things. It is just a matter of whether or not you believe it is ethical.
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Re: Veganism?

Postby catmoon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:44 am

Thread locked. If you wish to continue this discussion, please post in "The Great Vegetarian Debate" in the Dharma Free-for-all area.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby randomseb » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:20 pm

Sure, but what about a buddhist who uses mouthwash? All those millions of mouth germs that are killed.. so sad.

:rolleye:

I'm moving towards cutting meat products from my diet, down to maybe once a week or so these days, so that's not bad
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Nemo » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 pm

It's taken months but I am finding that I can tolerate vegetarian meals if I take them with 500mg of carnitine. Without it I would get symptoms similar to low blood sugar and within days be craving sugar and running out of energy. I can actually go veg a few days a week.
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