devotion ....

[robaire]

..... I'd like to explore what this thing devotion is ...considering that it is probably a decent ingredient in the recipe that calls for a capable expression of dharma ....

don't worry, I'm not going to rush this subject ...


actually it's like a seed .....

[dakini_boi]

Imagine that you know someone who has the ability to show you how to remove all of your pain, suffering, and problems, and give you complete happiness. how would you feel about this individual?

[muni]

Its magical power which is erasing all separation, all holding on, all fixation = dual mind fades.

Shechen Gyaltsap said: "Absolute truth, arisen from itself, is not realized through discursive thoughts but through devotion/faith".

[robaire]

Imagine that you know someone who has the ability to show you how to remove all of your pain, suffering, and problems, and give you complete happiness. how would you feel about this individual?

removing the range of experiences does not equal happiness.

[robaire]

Its magical power which is erasing all separation, all holding on, all fixation = dual mind fades.
Shechen Gyaltsap said: "Absolute truth, arisen from itself, is not realized through discursive thoughts but through devotion/faith".

shechen said it, now what about you?

[robaire]

an interesting thing about devotion is that ...
it comes from a place that has a flavor of the genuine .....

or, at least more genuine than language.

[Mr. G]

In the book "Mahayana Buddhism: Doctrinal Foundations" by Paul Williams, he writes:

"The Sutta Nipata of the Pali Canon is generally held by scholars to be one of the oldest extant Buddhist texts. At the very end of the Sutta Nipata, in a section also held to be among the oldest strata of that text, is a wonderfully moving and, I think, potentially significant discussion. A Brahmin named Pingiya 'the wise' praises Buddha in heartfelt terms:

They call him Buddha, Enlightened, Awake, dissolving darkness, with total vision, and knowing the world to its ends...This man...is the man I follow...This prince, this beam of light, Gotama, was the only one who dissolved the darkness. This man Gotama is a universe of wisdom and a world of understanding.

Why is it, Pingiya is asked that you do not spend all your time with the Buddha, that wonderful teacher? Pingiya replies that he himself is old, he cannot follow the Buddha physically, for 'my body is decaying'. But:

there is no moment for me, however small, that is spent away from Gotama, from this universe of wisdom, this world of understanding...with constant and careful vigilance it is possible for me to see him with my mind as clearly with my eyes, in night as well as day. And since I spend my nights revering him, there is not, to my mind, a single moment spent away from him.

In this ancient and extraordinary discussion Pingiya indicates that it was possible through his awareness, through his meditation, for him to be constantly in the presence of the Buddha and constantly revere him. Towards the end, the Buddha himself testifies that Pingiya too will go to 'the further shore' of enlightenment."

Pārāyanānugītigāthā

On Buddhanusmrti

[robaire]

that sounds like devotion all right.

[dakini_boi]

Imagine that you know someone who has the ability to show you how to remove all of your pain, suffering, and problems, and give you complete happiness. how would you feel about this individual?

removing the range of experiences does not equal happiness.

buddhahood is unconditional happiness.

[robaire]

I'm replying too fast and so am editing this ...

[gregkavarnos]

removing the range of experiences does not equal happiness.

Neither does expanding them Kev.

[Tilopa]

Neither does expanding them Kev.

Just what I was thinking....

[robaire]

let's say that every once in awhile a reality check forces you to take all your advance concepts and relate them to a 5 year old.
all the theories... all the masters. careful the kid is yawning already ...

so how do you relate tilopa or marpa to a 5 year old? here's a clue ...............

[Josef]

We often think of devotion as being something juvenile or simple.
But for me it took almost a decade to even start understanding it.
Devotion simplifies everything.

[robaire]

hi nangwa .... I'm going to answer too quick here ...

let's say that you pored over and studied dharma for many a year,
and finally cme to the conclusion that the objective was either going to be ....

acquiring power by use of magical like tools ... or ...

simply becoming a better person, the best possible, by developing ideal character.
for example, honesty, integrity, etc. .....

now the question leads to ..... what is the template, where are the guideposts ...
for developing an ideal character?

[robaire]

I had the idea that good character is something you carry with you across time.
when you move to another dimension whenever that might be the value stays with you.

if it's true that the planet is on a cusp of changes, then it is not hard to see where the black magicians are riding high in the saddle, in light of world situations. these are not weak people in a physical sense, they have power and they got power magically in many cases and they use it to consolidate their temporal power.

why? well they care little for what they will carry across times because they basically know they are screwed.
they have such little in redeeming values that they know where they are going (and that place is not pleasant ...) so instead of trying to right wrong, they add to it in the illusion that right here is all they have.

[robaire]

1. Generosity
2. Morality
3. Non-attachment
4. Wisdom
5. Energy
6. Patience, tolerance, and forbearance
7. Honesty
8. Determination
9. Loving kindness
10. Equanimity

is it possible to actually be devoted to the ideals that these represent ...?

[Josef]

hi nangwa .... I'm going to answer too quick here ...

let's say that you pored over and studied dharma for many a year,
and finally cme to the conclusion that the objective was either going to be ....

acquiring power by use of magical like tools ... or ...

simply becoming a better person, the best possible, by developing ideal character.
for example, honesty, integrity, etc. .....

now the question leads to ..... what is the template, where are the guideposts ...
for developing an ideal character?

For me devotion is nothing magical, nor does it have anything to do with acquiring power. It's far more simple than that.
In my opinion devotion can be directly and simply related to the three statements of Garab Dorje. The more we work with them the more obvious the benefits and meaning of devotion become. It's practical rather than religious.

[Josef]

1. Generosity
2. Morality
3. Non-attachment
4. Wisdom
5. Energy
6. Patience, tolerance, and forbearance
7. Honesty
8. Determination
9. Loving kindness
10. Equanimity

is it possible to actually be devoted to the ideals that these represent ...?

It is probably possible.
But I doubt it matters much. I am not devoted to lists or other such things personally.
I am more interested in experience.

[robaire]

but lists are fun where you're trying to appear important ...