Just as Buddha Shakyamuni had some unruly upstart students like Devadatta,
many other great masters likewise will have not-such-great student examples.
You can't really judge a teacher by their students alone...
since it is the students responsibility to properly apply the teachings..
and since even Buddhas can't do your work for you and 'enlighten' you.
You use Trungpa as an example-- well despite many great and well trained students
he would probably be dissapointed with some, especially those
that merely imitated his drunken philandering ways without the
true crazy-wisdom element he had to pull it off.
His regent is one example of course.
Krishnamurti and Buddhism
- Adamantine
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Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
"When the worldy morons encounter a devilish, cock-and-bull fellow who babbles a demonic line, they come up with a demonic interpretation and use it as compass. This is beneath comment. How can they perform the function of a great thing? Hearing that a certain person leads a group of millions, their mind is triggered into motion. Gaze well at the dharmas of your own mind to determine whether it harbors the spoken and written word or not."
excerpt from The Bodhidharma Anthology, J. L. Broughton
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Excellent. A little context often clears things up. TnxBeatzen wrote:I don't see how the statements contradict. I think Atisha was talking about comparing your progress to others. That doesn't imply negating the cultivation of a pure intention to wake up for the sake of others.Adamantine wrote:Beatzen wrote:Atisha explicitly stated not to concern oneself with othershmmmmnnn.... is this the missing puzzle piece? did i get it right?catmoon wrote:What, throw the bodhicitta out with the bathwater? Where is practice then?
As for judging a guru, I think you need to look at how their other students get along with their practice in order to accurately judge their merit. Like I've said before, take chogyam trungpa: a drunk and a fillanderer. But his students are very well trained.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
I'll take it you didn't read te section on Chogyam Trungpa in the book quoted here http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... =60#p78025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Will.Beatzen wrote:As for judging a guru, I think you need to look at how their other students get along with their practice in order to accurately judge their merit. Like I've said before, take chogyam trungpa: a drunk and a fillanderer. But his students are very well trained.
Don't get me wrong, I consider Chogyam Trungpa's Dharma teachings impeccable, almost beyond reproach, but his behaviour, well...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
As it says in the Vimalakirti Nirdesha Sutra:" Rely on the teachings not on the person".gregkavarnos wrote:I'll take it you didn't read te section on Chogyam Trungpa in the book quoted here http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... =60#p78025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Will.Beatzen wrote:As for judging a guru, I think you need to look at how their other students get along with their practice in order to accurately judge their merit. Like I've said before, take chogyam trungpa: a drunk and a fillanderer. But his students are very well trained.
Don't get me wrong, I consider Chogyam Trungpa's Dharma teachings impeccable, almost beyond reproach, but his behaviour, well...
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;21. Heedfulness is the path to the Deathless. Heedlessness is the path to death. The heedful die not. The heedless are as if dead already. [3]
22. Clearly understanding this excellence of heedfulness, the wise exult therein and enjoy the resort of the Noble Ones. [4]
23. The wise ones, ever meditative and steadfastly persevering, alone experience Nibbana, the incomparable freedom from bondage.
24. Ever grows the glory of him who is energetic, mindful and pure in conduct, discerning and self-controlled, righteous and heedful.
25. By effort and heedfulness, discipline and self-mastery, let the wise one make for himself an island which no flood can overwhelm.
26. The foolish and ignorant indulge in heedlessness, but the wise one keeps his heedfulness as his best treasure.
27. Do not give way to heedlessness. Do not indulge in sensual pleasures. Only the heedful and meditative attain great happiness.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
I understand that this is Your core teaching, and that you also embody it in your life. Excellent!gregkavarnos wrote:http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;21. Heedfulness is the path to the Deathless. Heedlessness is the path to death. The heedful die not. The heedless are as if dead already. [3]
22. Clearly understanding this excellence of heedfulness, the wise exult therein and enjoy the resort of the Noble Ones. [4]
23. The wise ones, ever meditative and steadfastly persevering, alone experience Nibbana, the incomparable freedom from bondage.
24. Ever grows the glory of him who is energetic, mindful and pure in conduct, discerning and self-controlled, righteous and heedful.
25. By effort and heedfulness, discipline and self-mastery, let the wise one make for himself an island which no flood can overwhelm.
26. The foolish and ignorant indulge in heedlessness, but the wise one keeps his heedfulness as his best treasure.
27. Do not give way to heedlessness. Do not indulge in sensual pleasures. Only the heedful and meditative attain great happiness.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)