May wrathful practice be performed?

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swampflower
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May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby swampflower » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:32 pm

If one is practicing Chod, may one also perform wrathful practices?
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

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conebeckham
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby conebeckham » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:52 pm

What do you mean by "wrathful practices?"

Do you mean "perform sadhana of wrathful yidams?" Or do you mean something else...some sort of "activity?"


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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swampflower
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby swampflower » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:50 pm

Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

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conebeckham
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby conebeckham » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:11 pm

There's no contradiction.

In Kagyu three year retreats, chod is practiced daily. Dorje Drollo is also practiced as a main practice.
And of course daily protector practices, Kilaya practice......there are "wrathful" practices that are practiced daily.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Pero
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Pero » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:40 am

Hm I've heard that when practicing Chod one shouldn't do wrathful practices. They're kind of opposites - in Chod you offer your body to all, in wrathful practice you destroy negativity... Though in retrospect I'm not 100% sure how it was meant. Maybe not to do one right after the other, like in the same session.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Dharmaswede » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:26 am

Depending on how you do it, and the sadhana in particular, Chöd itself can be extremely wrathful. For instance, it may involve transforming into the extremely wrathful yidam Troma Nagmo. Of course, you don't mix the sadhanas (such as in the case if you are doing a yidam practice separate from the Chöd) but do them in a sequence. In which order you should perform the sadhanas may play a role though.

I am not advising you on your practice, just offering some general perspectives. Sounds like you need help organizing your daily practice. Ask your lama, or possibly a senior student that you trust in the Sangha.

Best Wishes,

Jens

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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Josef » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:33 pm


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swampflower
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby swampflower » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:39 pm

Yes, thanks to all!
As my Yidam Deity is a Wrathful manifestation of Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava my Lama has advised for me to continue this practice.
I will perform Yidam Deity practice first in the morning, then move on to my Chod practice.
:namaste:
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:48 am

I think it's important to note a couple of things regarding Chod and wrathful practice. On the one hand, the wrathful expulsion of demons, obstructors, etc. is the antithesis of Chod. For that reason, you [generally] never see a Geg Tor in a Chod Tsog (the Torma for the obstructors). It's definitely the "feed, not fight" mentality.
On the other hand, some Chod sadhanas actually include extremely wrathful activity. The opening Wangdu Zilnon (Overwhelming with Majestic Splendour) section of many Terma Chod sadhanas utilizes all four of the Four Thrinley, including the annihilation. Sometimes this is indicated with a HUNG HUNG HUNG PHAT!
Take, for instance, the Chod Cham (dance) in the Khando Kegyang, Jigme Lingpa's Chod. In it, the practitioner wrathfully emanates and basically spars with a demon before restraining it and pitching a tent on it. It also advocates for some wrathful processes of exterminating hard-to-manage frightful appearances/demons, if the LuJin alone does not subdue them.

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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:28 am

This question has been on my mind a lot in the past couple of weeks. Just found this quote from "Machig's complete explanation" that quite aptly answers the question of wrathful practice.
"Do not beat down, drive out, or torture other beings by instigating harm on hostile, nonhuman sentient beings through charmed substances (rdzas thun), wrathful mantras, or doing wrathful practice. If you beat them down and drive them out, you contradict me and have lost the way of Chöd. On the other hand, if my followers do not tame these hostile demons that harm other sentient beings, it also runs contrary to me. Therefore, the method to tame demons is to give up your cherishing fixation on the body and give your life and limb to those demons without hesitation. That is the way to tame the demons." (Harding, 207).

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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Adamantine » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:41 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Kilaya
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Kilaya » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:10 pm

Does Throma Nagmo have any separate sadhana of her own apart from the Chöd ritual?

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Malcolm
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:12 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Kilaya
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Kilaya » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:15 pm


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JinpaRangdrol
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby JinpaRangdrol » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:32 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:58 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:00 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Kilaya
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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Kilaya » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:45 am

I meant that - apart from the obvious goal of attaining realization - Simhamukha's sadhana is connected with averting negative forces and black magic. Does the same go for Throma Nagmo, or is there any other specific activity she is related with?

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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Yudron » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:25 pm

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Re: May wrathful practice be performed?

Postby Dancinglion » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:16 am



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