Visionary Experience in Buddhism

AdmiralJim · Post by **AdmiralJim** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:55 pm

So what are Buddhist experiencing when they get visions as a result of particular practices?

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:14 pm

AdmiralJim wrote:So what are Buddhist experiencing when they get visions as a result of particular practices?

That really depends on how deluded they are.

catmoon · Post by **catmoon** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:02 pm

yup, visions range all the way from the divine to the ridiculous. An example of the ridiculous kind would be to sit in the dark pressing on your eyeballs and trying to divine meaning into the resulting random light display. Something similar happened to me recently in a meditation class where I focussed on a tiny point on the altar, retinal fatigue set in, and I was treated to an LSD-like light show. Completely useless. Or very nearly so, I guess I did learn a bit about the nature of perception.

Sönam · Post by **Sönam** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:20 pm

catmoon wrote:yup, visions range all the way from the divine to the ridiculous. An example of the ridiculous kind would be to sit in the dark pressing on your eyeballs and trying to divine meaning into the resulting random light display. ...

It could only be understood in a particular context ... one may always be careful when maintaining the ridiculous.

Sönam

PadmaVonSamba · Post by **PadmaVonSamba** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:12 am

If you mean a vision like seeing the Virgin of Guadalupe,
I've never had the pleasure.
But I have had my share of amazements.

AdmiralJim · Post by **AdmiralJim** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:32 pm

Well I have just finished reading about the life of Tilopa, who is said to have had visions of the primoridal Buddha Dorje Chang, how seriously are we to take these visionary experiences? I myself have had strange dreams with regards to certain aspects of teaching although I don't put much stock in them.

Nicholas Weeks · Post by **Nicholas Weeks** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:22 pm

AdmiralJim wrote:Well I have just finished reading about the life of Tilopa, who is said to have had visions of the primoridal Buddha Dorje Chang, how seriously are we to take these visionary experiences? I myself have had strange dreams with regards to certain aspects of teaching although I don't put much stock in them.

Tilopa took this sort of vision seriously, as do most Buddhists, when they have visions of respected gurus, bodhisattvas & buddhas or demons.

Rakz · Post by **Rakz** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:05 pm

Will wrote:
AdmiralJim wrote:Well I have just finished reading about the life of Tilopa, who is said to have had visions of the primoridal Buddha Dorje Chang, how seriously are we to take these visionary experiences? I myself have had strange dreams with regards to certain aspects of teaching although I don't put much stock in them.
Tilopa took this sort of vision seriously, as do most Buddhists, when they have visions of respected gurus, bodhisattvas & buddhas or demons.

So what about Catholic saints who are reported to see visions of the Virgin Mary? Are they false from the Buddhist POV since theism is rejected by Buddhists?

PadmaVonSamba · Post by **PadmaVonSamba** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:01 pm

Ryoto wrote:
So what about Catholic saints who are reported to see visions of the Virgin Mary? Are they false from the Buddhist POV since theism is rejected by Buddhists?

I think the question of when a "vision" is 'true' or 'false' needs to be looked at.
If we are proposing the idea of the object of a vision (Mary, or Buddha or whatever)
as being essentially different from the mind of the person experiencing the vision,
something exclusively external
then this would be rejected from a buddhist perspective.
So, like the saying goes, if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

But if one realizes the mind's nature free from obscurations,
then it is no different from a Buddha, even though the vision may appear outside of oneself.
This is because it is only called a 'vision'
when really, it is an expression of the mind's true nature.

It's like shining a flashlight on a wall. The light appear to be on the wall, way over there.
In fact, it is on the wall. But it is also the same light coming from the flashlight, right here.
It isn't two different lights.

This doesn't mean that what Tilopa saw was just all in his imagination.
it means that whatever he saw, that being exists at a level of clarity that is obscured to most people,
like tall skyscrapers that disappear on cloudy days.

I think, the Catholic version is more like the light appearing on the wall
but nobody has a flashlight turned on.
So they call it a 'miracle'.
.
.

Rakz · Post by **Rakz** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:57 am

Awesome explanation. Thanks.

kirtu · Post by **kirtu** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:15 am

AdmiralJim wrote:So what are Buddhist experiencing when they get visions as a result of particular practices?

If it's a legitimate vision, then they are primarily experiencing the result of some purification.

Kirt

PadmaVonSamba · Post by **PadmaVonSamba** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:29 pm

I knew a buddhist who drank all the time and was always going around in a stupa.

JinpaRangdrol · Post by **JinpaRangdrol** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:42 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:I knew a buddhist who drank all the time and was always going around in a stupa.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

One of the best Buddhist jokes I've heard in a while.

steveb1 · Post by **steveb1** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:17 pm

If memory serves, Shinran experienced a vision of a Buddha who informed him that Honen was "the man to see" in regard to Shinran's problems with practice.
And if I'm not mistaken, certain Tibetan disciplines cultivate a visionary practice wherein Buddhas and other celestial beings can be the objects of both perception and union. However, as has already been pointed out, these "beings" are not conceived as wholly separate from the practitioner's own concsiousness. Otherwise, the vision would be non-Buddhistic and much more related to "I-Thou Separation" religions that contain Marian apparitions and suchlike...

Dharma Wheel