Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators
Adamantine wrote:....discarding essential points of Dharma like rebirth, . . I mean, you should know there are many warnings by Guru Rinpoche about these degeneration times and degeneration of the teachings..
kirtu wrote:Adamantine wrote:....discarding essential points of Dharma like rebirth, . . I mean, you should know there are many warnings by Guru Rinpoche about these degeneration times and degeneration of the teachings..
Ray has discarded rebirth from his teachings?
Some strands of Buddhism recommend eliminating likes and dislikes in order to accept everything equally. The Dzogchen approach is to leave natural energies—including lust and revulsion—as they are
After a time, your tense, dualistic attitudes will evaporate and you will get to the point where gold and pebbles, food and filth, gods and demons, virtue and nonvirtue, are all the same for you-you’ll be at a loss to choose between paradise and hell! But until you reach that point (while you are still caught in the experiences of dualistic perception), virtue and nonvirtue, buddhafields and hells, happiness and pain, actions and their results – all this is reality for you. As the Great Guru has said, "My view is higher than the sky, but my attention to actions and their results is finer than flour."
So don’t go around claiming to be some great Dzogchen meditator when in fact you are nothing but a farting lout, stinking of alcohol and rank with lust!
David Chapman wrote:But one of the major points in the podcasts is that you are an dissenting (or however you want to word it) voice, with deviating views, on matters that lie at the heart of the Vajrayana tradition.
Hmm. Could you be more specific? I don't think I said that... I suggest only that new presentations are possible and desirable.
heart wrote:Protestant Buddhism expressing its true face as the degeneration of Dharma in our times. There can't be much of Dudjom Rinpoche left in Ngakpa Chögyam teachings if his students say this.
Who gave the transmission of this lineage to the Aro leader?
he explicitly rejects karma and rebirth
David Chapman wrote:For instance, some of Shinzen Young's introductory talks about Vajrayana on YouTube are admirably clear and seem accurate.
David Chapman wrote:Adamantine, yes, the distinction between terma and other re-presentation is worth being clear about. (Although, according to Guru Chöwang, ultimately, all Dharma is terma.)
David Chapman wrote:
Uh, no. Are you referring to "No cosmic justice"? That doesn't reject rebirth or karma at all. (I understand that it could easily be misread that way if you start from the assumption that anyone who isn't altogether traditional will hold all modernist prejudices. Maybe it needs some clarification and expansion.)
The page explicitly endorses a particular notion of karma, and says nothing about rebirth one way or the other. The point is that there isn't an external, eternal mechanism of reward and punishment.
Re leaving emotions as they are: I do not see the contradiction between the two passages you cite. Düdjom Rinpoche confirms that this is the method of Dzogchen; he then points out that you should not claim to be able to apply that approach unless you actually can.
I also saw lay tantrikas who had acted irresponsibly, old sorcerers, and ordinary people who had pretended to be lamas, inconceivable numbers of them vomiting blood and experiencing unbearable bodily pain. I saw many carnivorous creatures devouring them and many denizens of hell hurling accusations of misdeeds at them.
David Chapman wrote:Who gave the transmission of this lineage to the Aro leader?
Aro Lingma, the original terton, in visions.
Jikan wrote:Apropos of whether an invented history & lineage are problematic for Dzogchenpas:I also saw lay tantrikas who had acted irresponsibly, old sorcerers, and ordinary people who had pretended to be lamas, inconceivable numbers of them vomiting blood and experiencing unbearable bodily pain. I saw many carnivorous creatures devouring them and many denizens of hell hurling accusations of misdeeds at them.
This is from Delog Dawa Drolma's account of her experiences in the various realms, recorded in English in Delog (p. 82). I assume this text has some authority in this forum and in this thread.
I would like to know if there is any plausible rebuttal to the position that our friends involved in a "vajra romance" with the Aro scene are, in fact, students of ordinary people who are pretending to be lamas, as Dawa Drolma puts it. This is the primary critique against Aro, that it's phony. It's clear to me from this and other sources that if it's phony, then it's a problem. But the problem goes away if David or anyone else can show it's not phony. Well?