How practical is consort practice for the majority?

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How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby wayland » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:31 pm

Having read a few things here lately about consort practice I got wondering about it - not in a critical way. It seems a brilliant system but how often, for a westerner who discovers Buddhism, could the consort teachings have any practical value? As far as I understand it a consort is an empowered and qualified individual who shares the same goals.

Most people taking tantric empowerments may be doing so without any partner (obviously with one would be ideal). A real life partner may not share an interest in Buddhism and for them sex is just sex. It seems the system was originally designed for a guru with a close circle of disciples. The guru would then take care of that aspect, when the time was right.

Nowadays, hundreds take empowerments at large ceremonies and most will not have that intimacy with a guru. So, whilst other aspects of the two stages are doubtlessly useful, how can the 'consort' component be utilized?

I would appreciate any feedback on this.

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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby DarwidHalim » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:38 pm

In tantric vow, our life partner cannot be used as the consort for our practice if she doesnt fulfil certain criteria.

This consort practice is actually very very secret.

Consort practice is the fastest way to send us to the hell if we are not sincere.

Double edge sword.

It may nOt be suitable for all practitioner. So we need to know our own limitation as well.

Kriya tantra, such as avalokiteshvara tantra is more suitable for general public. This tantra is without consort and te conduct has to be extremely pure. No garlic and vegetarian.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Mr. G » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:57 pm

I don't think it is practical for the majority. There's probably a handful of people who know how to properly practice karmamudra. It can easily turn into some ego-trip where people think they are progressing on the path when in fact they are increasing afflictions. It reminds me of the story of Kumarajiva:

    One day Kumarajiva insisted on cooking lunch for the whole assembly of monks, but when lunch was served each bhiksu found just one needle in his bowl. Before they could protest, the Master addressed them, "Whoever can eat his needle can have a wife. If you aren't able to eat a needle, you aren't able to have a wife." As the bhiksus sat staring at their needles, Kumarajiva walked down the rows of tables and one by one ate every needle. Then he and two attendants began walking back to his house. Halfway home he stopped. He asked the two to help him pull out the needles as they emerged through his pores. They returned with every, one of the needles.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:07 pm

DarwidHalim wrote:
Kriya tantra, such as avalokiteshvara tantra is more suitable for general public. This tantra is without consort and te conduct has to be extremely pure. No garlic and vegetarian.


One of the funny things that people say is that lower tantra is more suitable for general public. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Actually, in lower tantra there are many rites for attracting and seducing human and non-human woman, killing enemies, and so on.

The model for the four activities, pacifying, enrichment, power, and destructive rites, etc., come directly from kriya tantra. Kriya tantra is practiced for these siddhis specifically.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Best scenario: Receive complete Karmamudra instructions and perform them correctly.

Second best scenario: Stay in chastity through celibacy with Meditation, Pranayamas, and various physical Yogas.

Third best scenario: If the former two scenarios are not an option for you, and you don't have complete Karmamudra instructions, then study and gather as much information as you can and try Karmamudra practice regardless, and aspire to eventually receive complete instructions. Sexual-misconduct like masturbation piles up huge amounts of painful karma anyway, so if you can't for whatever reason stay in chastity through celibacy with Pranayama, then it's better to at least try Karmamudra practice. However this doesn't mean that you try a half-fast Pranayama regimen for a couple weeks and then go "Well, it didn't work. I better go find a consort."

Also, if you have received the Direct Introduction of Dzogchen, you can perform Karmamudra as a Semdzin, without having to do any complicated visualizations.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:25 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:
Also, if you have received the Direct Introduction of Dzogchen, you can perform Karmamudra as a Semdzin, without having to do any complicated visualizations.



That is not karmamudra.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:27 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote: Sexual-misconduct like masturbation


Wanking is only sexual misconduct for monks.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:30 pm

Was that a very large collective sigh of relief I just heard?



:smile:
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:31 pm

No, because it causes damage to the nervous system whether we are a monk or not. When there is no exchange of male & female energies in any sexual act, then there is at least short-term damage to the nervous system; and possible long-term damage if the act is repeated often and/or over a long period of time.

So fourth best scenario: Instead of masturbating, go out and "get laid".
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:32 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:No, because it causes damage to the nervous system whether we are a monk or not.


Bollocks.


N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:44 pm

If people want to waste their energy through masturbation, that's their choice then. But I do not recommend it at all.

Anyway, in The Crystal and the Way of Light, Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche implied that Karmamudra is not necessary for Dzogchen, but that it can be a great Semdzin practice.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Clarence » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:47 pm

conebeckham wrote:Was that a very large collective sigh of relief I just heard?

:smile:


:woohoo:
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:57 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:If people want to waste their energy through masturbation, that's their choice then. But I do not recommend it at all.

Anyway, in The Crystal and the Way of Light, Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche implied that Karmamudra is not necessary for Dzogchen, but that it can be a great Semdzin practice.




Karmamudra practice is completley unnecessary in Dzogchen.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:03 pm

Never implied that Karmamudra is completely necessary for Dzogchen. I'm just going by what Rinpoche wrote in The Crystal and the Way of Light (i.e. Karmamudra as an excellent Semdzin practice of Dzogchen).
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby justsit » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:41 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote: Sexual-misconduct like masturbation


Wanking is only sexual misconduct for monks.


It's still craving and attachment for everyone, yes?
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:05 pm

justsit wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote: Sexual-misconduct like masturbation


Wanking is only sexual misconduct for monks.


It's still craving and attachment for everyone, yes?


In fact, to do consort practice, you have to inflame you and your partner's desire as much as possible, use very erotic language, candles, nice food, wine, clothes, scents, being as free from physical inhibition as possible, etc., and you have to do so for an extended period of time, weeks and months.

People who claim that it is some dry yogic experience free of desire obviously have never actually received actual detailed instruction on it, or done the practice.

N
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby justsit » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:14 pm

I was referring to wanking.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:16 pm

Yes, masturbation is both a cause and a result of craving/attachment.

Whereas Karmamudra practice is potentially the most healthy spiritual expression of physical sexuality.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:17 pm

Let us not forget that there are many female practitioners of Tantra.

The ideal situation, as I see it, is that Dharma Brothers and Sisters engage in consort practice, whilst also keeping moral discipline.

It is certainly a route open to abuse, as seen in Vajrayana practitioners in the last few decades.

It is practical, but care needs to be exercised to avoid the pitfalls. First of all, an HYT empowerment does not mean an individual is sufficently advanced to engage in consort practice.
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Re: How practical is consort practice for the majority?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:18 pm

justsit wrote:I was referring to wanking.



Unless of course it is tantric wanking since you lack a real consort, for example, monks. You still have to inflame your passion and so on. It is not just simple visualization.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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