The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:50 am

Mint wrote:And then I read that goddamned thread by Lhug-pa where he, yet again, is attempting to dissect Dzogchen like some MIT student taking finals.


Lol yea I need to stop doing that, it's a bad habit. Just that I've been reading about Dzogchen on and off for like seven years (notice how that thread was started almost a couple weeks before the WWT), so I wanted to bring up some things there that were on my mind, aside from the main question which was about Nadis and Trekchö. And like Pero said, you could know Dzogchen better than I, despite all my intellectualizing.


Mint wrote: I did have a dream, though, that ChNN came to visit me and saw my meditation bench in the closet and paid it some respect, but I was completely naked and had to wrap myself in some thin cloth to meet him…but then I woke up. Just a dream, though. A stupid one at that. Another delusion.


Interesting, I had a dream about Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche last night too; and it was the only dream I've had about him that I even remember somewhat clearly. My dream was also kind of awkward, although Rinpoche didn't seem to be as disappointed in me as I thought he would.

Well anyway I don't know about you Mint, but I have some very particular karmic circumstances that require me to perform either Vajrasattva Ngondro or the Six Lokas Rushen (and I'm now unemployed to boot, and don't have time to do a retreat before finding a job) if I'm to continue any real Dharma practice. And it sounds like you don't have that type of circumstance, so why don't you just practice Guru Yoga even if only once a day for five minutes, and then study and do secondary practices when you have more opportunity?

BTW, there's no such thing as a stupid dream; because you can learn something about yourself from any dream, even absurd and/or egotistical ones.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:53 am

wisdom wrote:
My financial situation sucks too. I make 10$ an hour, live with a room mate who has pretty heavy delusions, I take public transit to work. I haven't even been able to afford to join the DC yet, let alone buy a pile of books and DVDs. My family is poor, my father is basically homeless. On top of this I have about 10 grand in debt from various stupid things. Most of that is from a single electric bill and the IRS, despite being minimum wage they think I owe them thousands of dollars and I can't afford to fight it. I have no schooling to show for it, and can't afford to attend the Buddhist college I want to go to because they don't accept FAFSA. I can't ordain to become a monk because you have to be debt free, and I would actually do that for a few years if I could and learn Tibetan, then go off to a 9 year college in Tibet. If I had only 20k, I could begin to make all my dreams a reality. As it stands most likely none of them will ever happen, and such a small barrier in reality exists between them being a fantasy and reality. Such is life.


Acually, what you have to do is file for bankruptcy. Chapter 7. Really. They will just clear your debts. Includiung your tax debt, as long as you filed.

N
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Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Mr. G » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:55 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:Lol yea I need to stop doing that, it's a bad habit.


If it helps you understand, it's not.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby zangskar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:13 am

I know nothing of Dzogchen but as it's supposed to be one of the most profound teachings of the Tibetan tradition I would personally be very disappointed if I had understood anything after having attended just a single lecture and reading books for a few for a month or two. I mean... if I did understand after such a short time and small effort then it could not have been very profound, could it? :) I wouldn't even have been able to complete say "Being and Time" in that time. :)

That said from an outsiders point of view there appears to be quite widespread confusion about basic terms in the Dzogchen discussion subforum, maybe partly because of Tibetan language issues.. Maybe I'm completely wrong about that (since I don't know anything about it, how can I really judge), or maybe the confusion is more of a philosophical and doctrinal nature and not of substantial importance, etc. Unless I am completely mistaken maybe it would be a good idea if some of the dedicated Dzogchen practitioners here should compile some basic dictionary/handbook of terms and definitions.. just a thought.

Best wishes
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby mint » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:17 am

wisdom wrote:As a Dzogchenpa I'm free to not understand, and free to study and practice other vehicles....Follow in the footsteps of the great masters. They went through all the vehicles, held all the vows. There is no shame in doing that, and in fact its skillful means to do so if it means that practicing Hinayana or Vajrayana or whatever means removing obscuration and ignorance. Read Chodron and Trungpa if you connect with them. At some point in time you will think "I need to read this book by ChNN" and you will, and if you let it arise spontaneously like that, and follow your intuition rather than forcing things, you will find that the book will contain precisely what you need to know, and what you are ready to learn.


This shouldn't be news to me, but it is.

I guess when some said that Trungpa was dead and that I should study a living master, I took that quite literally thus forsaking a great body of literature and knowledge which I know exists out there. I guess I somehow imagined that a true Dzogchenpa only concerns him/herself with Dzogchen since, as you say, that is the essence of all other paths. Why study something else when it all is contained in Dzogchen? Such is my myopic understanding.

I just wish I had some sort of plan laid out for me like a syllabus explaining what I can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

Will I ever get this?? I can't continue on this rollercoaster indefinitely. :|
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Josef » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:01 am

mint wrote:
wisdom wrote:As a Dzogchenpa I'm free to not understand, and free to study and practice other vehicles....Follow in the footsteps of the great masters. They went through all the vehicles, held all the vows. There is no shame in doing that, and in fact its skillful means to do so if it means that practicing Hinayana or Vajrayana or whatever means removing obscuration and ignorance. Read Chodron and Trungpa if you connect with them. At some point in time you will think "I need to read this book by ChNN" and you will, and if you let it arise spontaneously like that, and follow your intuition rather than forcing things, you will find that the book will contain precisely what you need to know, and what you are ready to learn.


This shouldn't be news to me, but it is.

I guess when some said that Trungpa was dead and that I should study a living master, I took that quite literally thus forsaking a great body of literature and knowledge which I know exists out there. I guess I somehow imagined that a true Dzogchenpa only concerns him/herself with Dzogchen since, as you say, that is the essence of all other paths. Why study something else when it all is contained in Dzogchen? Such is my myopic understanding.

I just wish I had some sort of plan laid out for me like a syllabus explaining what I can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

Will I ever get this?? I can't continue on this rollercoaster indefinitely. :|

Do what works for you and what inspires you.
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:33 am

mint wrote:I just wish I had some sort of plan laid out for me like a syllabus explaining what I can and can't, should and shouldn't do.


There are no limitations.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Virgo » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 am

Dear mint,

An important part about Dzogchen is working with energy. I think it's important that you lessen your stress in life. Your energy is very important. Try to adopt yoga and balance and harmonize your energies through ayruvedic remedies. Without harmonized energy, it is very difficult to practice Dzogchen.

Kevin
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby Paul » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:55 pm

catmoon wrote:A truly radical thought:

Wouldn't a true Dzogchenpa be acutely aware that Dzogchen (or any other practice) isn't worth the powder to blow it, and hence be unworried about all this?

By attaching extreme value to a practice, one immediately falls prey to fear, anxiety, attachment and anger, ego, the works. By not attaching a value, high or low, one is immediately free to do or not do, as seems beneficial in the moment.


Thanks for posting this. There is a lot of very good advice from people here, but this comment really caught my eye. In my opinion it mirrors some advice that Milarepa wrote and Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche recently taught.

I guess if we are busy thinking "I am practicing Dzogchen" we've already failed and grasping at getting it right etc. etc. is soon round the corner. The dualistic mind really is a strange beast.
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: The Neurotic Zen of Mint

Postby mint » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:12 pm

I wanted to thank everybody for their patience and kindness in dealing with my neuroses these past weeks. I really appreciate the balanced perspective so many of you have offered me. How I got on the mental track that Dzogchen is some spiritual path that I am supposed to practice, that there are things that I am obligated to do and not do, etc. and thus only entrench myself deeper in dualism, I don't know, but it was sneaky and overwhelmed me. So, thank you all.

I plan on sorting through this thread and writing down in my "spiritual notebook" much of the advice given for future reference when needed.

Paul wrote:I guess if we are busy thinking "I am practicing Dzogchen" we've already failed and grasping at getting it right etc. etc. is soon round the corner. The dualistic mind really is a strange beast.


What's most curious is how one can read about how there is nothing dualistic about practicing the teachings at all, reflect on that truth and try to synthesize it, only to forget it and act completely contrary in actual situations.
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