Konchog1 wrote:So my body exists because of dependent origination but is labeled “arm” “leg” “trunk” and then “body”. Everything exists but it isn’t a body or my body. It’s arm+leg+etc and then labeled body and those are broken down too. Everything exists and functions but doesn’t have identities just labels.
So an Arya would think “the collections of collections that myself and others label body has been hit”?
Anything that dependently originates is merely labeled because it’s made from things that are labeled so anything that dependently originates (which is everything) is empty. Things can't be labelled unless they're empty so form is emptiness and emptiness is form.
Ah, still trying to find the razor’s edge between externalism and nihilism. If I’m right though this has blown my mind. Thank you.
Things cannot be said exist and cannot be said non-exist.
We cannot say it exist before now it is like this, but next moment it is already like that. This is a prove that thing is changeable. If thing really exist, that thing cannot change because it has a self.
We also cannot say things do not exist, because there are display, there are show.
The problem is: What is actually the true face of that display or that show?
We always think that thing are functioning. This is not right. In daily life, things are not functioning. But every second, the condition keeps changing, so we have a new display, a new display, again and again. From outside, it looks like a function. If you see how a tree grow in a television, from viewer side, you will see that the tree is growing. But from the television side, the tree is not growing. The television is just showing different light due to different causes and condition. Similarly, in this reality, things keep changing due to different causes and condition.
When we realize this is how things occur, you actually cannot pin point and make a demarkation that from this to that, this is called A. From another this to that, this is called B.
Once you make that A and B, automatically you will again create something call 'function' to relate what you have created before as A and B.
Reality has no A and has no B.
Reality has no name.
Reality has no identity.
Human create that name and create that identity based on certain display. But they don't realize that display is actually just an empty display.
We need to remember we do not negate the existance of display. But we negate the existance of identity.
Whatever we do, they don't have identity.
When we pray to buddha, we are praying to identitiless buddha or illusionlike buddha.
When we make a merit, we are making an identitiless merit or illusionlike merit.
When we receive a merit, we are receiving an identitiless merit or illusionlike merit.
Because everything is illusionlike, no identity, baseless, by right we cannot say this is buddha, this is merit, this is body that makes all this, this is mind that makes all this.
But, we do so, because of general consensus based on that display.
We also need to know about conventional truth.
For ordinary folk, conventional truth has identity.
For for enlightened being, conventional truth has no identity.
So, there are 2 types of beings. The label is same, but one label has identity, another one has no label or identity.
There is a great dispute between 2 buddhist school - Madyamika Sautrantika and Prasangika.
For Madyamika Sautrantika, things are selfless, not exist. But, they argue that conventionally or relatively things exist.
This is rejected by Prasangika, because it makes no sense.
If things are selfless, not exist, no identity, conventionally they are also like that.
When we say this is a glass, Prasangika is actually saying this is a "glass". This is a "body".
THey just say it out because we are living on earth and we need this label to communicate. But, is there a glass or a body? There is no glass and body. If no glass and body, why you still say a glass or body? We say it out because we need to commnicate based on a vocabulary accepted by general consensus. We are pushed by society to describe this phenomena with label, where in real is identitiless and no boundary display, as something as if this display has a boundary and as if this display has a self.
So, I hope it is clear here that in reality, we actualy have no base at all to put our label. We put a label, only as if there is a base for our object.
That is why in Prajnaparamita Sutta, it is mentioned:
THere is no eyes, no nouse, etc.
There is no increment, no decrement, no achievement, etc.
THere is EVEN no impermanent.
We are talking impermanent again and again. How come there is no impermanent? This is because we cannot find a base to put a label as a subject or an object.
When there is no subject or an object, how can you have a property such as weight, permanent, impermanent, etc?
By right and by logic, we cannot have it.
You may argue that in daily life, we have weight etc. But we need to know, your weight is just a phenomena when you related that phenomena to another phenomena called instrument. So, that phenomena is changing. Your weight is changing. If the phenomena of your weight instrument change, for example the string is a bit loose, then you get another phenomena called different weight.
So, this weight is not the real weight. They are just a phenomena, when you relate all this 'baseless' phenomena, you will definitely get another 'baseless' phenomena. Again remember, we do not say there is no display of phenomena in emptiness. What we say is just this: This so called weight is just a phenomena which in reality this particular phenomena actually has no identity.
Whatever we make, we should know this thing as said by Kumarajiva.
Where there is form, ALREADY there is emptiness. Where there is emptiness, ALREADY there is form.
When we create something by our label, they are actually already without identity. Why? Because before we create that thing with our label, they are already no identity. THey always have no identity.
The emptiness itself is just a concept. We can only know emptiness when we create something by label.
If we do not create something, how can we know that thing is empty? That is why emptiness itself is always found whether in term of form or formless.
When we know that form and empty are just a concept, we will understand emptiness of emptiness. And this is the one that make our mind extremely stable.
We need to know why we are discussing emptiness. Why emptiness is so important to be understood? If we don't know this, we will just think that emptiness is a scholar debate. This is completely wrong.
There is one thing which is very important about emptiness is this teaching have to be understood and has to be realized for anyone who want to free from samsara.
No matter how good is just art of letting go, if you still have a notiOn of identity and fully believe this notion exist as reality, you will simply born in the highest god realm, realm of neither perception nor non-perception, like what have happen to 2 Sidharta teachers.
If we can understand emptiness, we will be able to see reality as it is. We will NEVER EVER get cheated anymore by the display. Our mind will be completely stable. Attachment will NATURALLY disappear, craving will NATURALLY disappear, grasping will NATURALLY disappear.
There is a great dispute about this between Hinayana scholar and Madhyamika-Prasagika scholar as told by Shantideva.
Hinayana scholar said:
What is the used to see things like an illusion?
A magician who display a girl, he still can have lust for that girl.
If we think about it, actually it is very stupid, isn't it. We know the lady is not there, why we still have lust.
Shantideva said: This is because our realization about no identity is still very very weak.
If we have fully realized it, not only that magic display of lady won't raise lust, even the 'real' lady also cannot raise lust.
It is because the magic display of that lady and the 'real' lady are actually same, in the sense that they are empty of identity.
No basis at all. Just an empty display.
The more we realize it, the more we reach stability of mind and the more natural all these attachments, craving, etc disappear.