Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Nosta » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:41 pm

An internet forum is not the best place for you.

Please, take again the advice that some members here already gave you, and find professional help (a doctor). Probably you need some medication and treatments to make the voices you hear go away. You need to inform you friends and family about your status so they can help you too.
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Grand Poo Bah » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Okay, thanks for your suggestions, if you don't mind I might make a post here to gain some sense of grounding every 2 or three months at most, if it's not a bother. Whats different is that I've so thoroughly been gaining the assistance of the mental health profession having worked in it for about 7 years it's as if working with the system is something that is easy for me to appropriately milk while the advice thats being given is like throughing me to the wolves while, speculatively so, hiding behind Buddhists nonviolent views in abscence of acknowledgement of the imbalance of which occurs Buddhist manners of using hurt innocent people to protect the Dharma despite the extent to which Buddhism insights mental illness with violence, in terms of explaining some sense of balance concerning the circumstances I've been addressing in my life.

In terms of the wolves, the mental health facility that had been treating me is generally unfit for human participation in that I'm explaining that sitting with a Psychiatrict in session, whom is sitting at a computer checking off boxes while assessing and treating you is not a good circumstance to advise a person too when the causal influences of a Psychiatrist checking off boxes with labels such as "depression", "paranoia" and so on, of which effect causal reality as I experience in session, something I confronted my Psychiatrist for and he showed me his door upon my objection. He couldn't handle his anger of weight and pressure concerning words that supported me like any other person.

So in some sense, withing the opinions of some of the views expressed concerning the limitation of feeding into labels as diagnosis is, as I view it, the future hells of your manner of proceeding in existence, perhaps in the after life in truth of karma assoicated with those benefiting from bad advice or something to that effect., in acknowledgement of the responsibilities associated with giving advice. An anticdote might be, try resting present to the mindful truth where the balance of truth and transcendence includes what one hopes for in consideration of fabricated reality as it was ment for human beings, including transcendent awareness. The truth of whom I am concerning the extent of which I mirror the truth of reality, me and beyond based on what I've expressed, with some sense of resolve that allows the truth of what resembles whom each living person is, ya know, in terms of how silly receiving such obserdly poor advice is in truth, to me.

Too me, it's exceedingly unfortunate to witness such calamaties associated with causal existence and such advice being affiliated with Buddhist view.

Best wishes.
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:45 pm

So find a better psychiatrist. Simple really.

Unfortunately in the real world (as you well know) you either seek professional help and take the medication you need, or you end up overmedicated and handcuffed to a hospital bed after a crisis, or, probably the worst scenario, you end up on the street somewhere totally lost eating out of garbage bins.

Buddhism is not psychiatric assistance, it can be psychological assistance, but not psychiatric. Now if you were in Dharamsala and happened to be recognised as an oracle, well, okay (to an extent). But since you are not...

You can, of course, deal with your illness and practice Buddhism at the same time. It's not a case of either/or. BOTH will help you overcome your suffering.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Grand Poo Bah » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:58 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:So find a better psychiatrist. Simple really.

Unfortunately in the real world (as you well know) you either seek professional help and take the medication you need, or you end up overmedicated and handcuffed to a hospital bed after a crisis, or, probably the worst scenario, you end up on the street somewhere totally lost eating out of garbage bins.


I was going to walk away from the computer but you posted so quickly after me I have to comment, the above suggestion, advice or whatever you might refer to it all is like, to me, if you don't mind me explaining, is garbage that you'll have to eat. Do you feel the cruelty if what to me is blatant bafoonery. It leaves me only to caution you and others from continuing too express yourself as if you know what your talking about withough questioning yourself. Nothing personal I don't ascribe to views that lack truth of perspective.
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Adamantine » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:14 pm

From a purely Buddhist POV my guess is that Shiné practice could be very helpful. This is otherwise translated as "calm-abiding" meditation or shamatha in sanskrit. Basically, it involves sustaining concentration on a single point, a physical object in the room you focus your eyes on, your breath, the tip of your nose where the breath creates sensation, a thumb-sized statue of the Buddha, etc. But you choose one of these to focus on, and then you rest your total awareness on that. Whenever the mind begins to wander, to think, to obsess, you recognize it is happening, and you gently bring yourself back to the object of focus. In your case, if these entities begin talking to you, you likewise bring the mind back to the object of focus. All of it, you simply label as "thought", and don't feed or give importance to. Only continue the sustained concentration on the object, and relax into that. Whatever the mind fabricates, you treat it like "the radio in the next room". What I mean is that if you were studying hard for an exam, and your roommate had their radio on loud in the next room, you would have to focus more intensely on your studies and the radio "noise" might be there but you wouldn't have your attention on it-- you wouldn't be following the news broadcast because all your attention would be in your studies. We all know this experience. So in the same way, treat the inner-dialogue of the mind, also including these voices you hear, these revelations you keep having, etc. It is all just the radio in the next room.. while you are doing this meditation. Try this for short periods of time at first, then slowly as you develop confidence in it, sustain it for longer sessions. This cultivation of one-pointed focus has a very powerful purifying effect, and it may help develop the ability to work with your condition in a new way. I am not a teacher, and can make no promises or predictions, but I have a feeling this could be of benefit if I have understood your posts correctly. Let me know if you find it helpful.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:10 pm

Grand Poo Bah wrote:I was going to walk away from the computer but you posted so quickly after me I have to comment, the above suggestion, advice or whatever you might refer to it all is like, to me, if you don't mind me explaining, is garbage that you'll have to eat. Do you feel the cruelty if what to me is blatant bafoonery. It leaves me only to caution you and others from continuing too express yourself as if you know what your talking about withough questioning yourself. Nothing personal I don't ascribe to views that lack truth of perspective.
Firstly, I am a mental health professional (trained in psychology and social work). Secondly, I have had a number of friends (and "clients") take one of the three options I outlined above. And lastly, you know that what I am saying is true. If you have a psychiatric illness unfortunately (and I really do mean unfortunately, I sincerely wish there was a fourth option but there isn't in the world we currently inhabit) this is the reality. Trying to deal with a psychiatric illness without professional help (and that includes medication in the majority of instances) is just not an option. I really sincerely wish it was, but it is not.

I am sorry if what I said upset you, it was not my intention to do so.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Adamantine » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:55 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Grand Poo Bah wrote:I was going to walk away from the computer but you posted so quickly after me I have to comment, the above suggestion, advice or whatever you might refer to it all is like, to me, if you don't mind me explaining, is garbage that you'll have to eat. Do you feel the cruelty if what to me is blatant bafoonery. It leaves me only to caution you and others from continuing too express yourself as if you know what your talking about withough questioning yourself. Nothing personal I don't ascribe to views that lack truth of perspective.
Firstly, I am a mental health professional (trained in psychology and social work). Secondly, I have had a number of friends (and "clients") take one of the three options I outlined above. And lastly, you know that what I am saying is true. If you have a psychiatric illness unfortunately (and I really do mean unfortunately, I sincerely wish there was a fourth option but there isn't in the world we currently inhabit) this is the reality. Trying to deal with a psychiatric illness without professional help (and that includes medication in the majority of instances) is just not an option. I really sincerely wish it was, but it is not.

I am sorry if what I said upset you, it was not my intention to do so.
:namaste:


Greg, I think you'd do yourself a better service if you didn't speak in absolutes, it makes it sound like you think you are omniscient. . . you can say "in general this is the case" ... or something like that, I believe this is more what you mean.

As an example of an alternative: I met a renowned healer in Bouda when I was staying in Katmandhu in 1997. Years earlier, she appeared to be insane, she was talking to herself, displaying all the signs of schizophrenia, and frustrating and terrifying her husband. But one day a high Lama encountered her on the street, and recognized something remarkable in her: he saw that she had a gift, and an ability that she needed to develop, and she just needed purification to harness it---> this was what was making her crazy, because she hadn't been able to channel it properly. So he guided her, she did the proper practices and purification and then she became a type of healing-oracle. Even HH the Dalai Lama had recognized her as such by the time I saw her. She treated everyone indiscriminately, Tibetans, Nepalis, Westerners, whoever came to her with a need, but she was channeling a wrathful female deity, and was quite terrifying to behold. She would bite you, suck black goop from you, use bamboo to suck or beat you, etc. But many people were healed, even from a distance (she could also see what was wrong with people from a photo alone, etc. so had a type of clairvoyance related to her healing). And once she had properly developed her gifts she never exhibited the type of craziness that had aggravated her before.

So each individual is unique, I suggest you don't speak in absolutes unless you are omniscient.
There's a good chance you're right, but it's not the only possibility.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:19 am

Adamantine wrote:So each individual is unique, I suggest you don't speak in absolutes unless you are omniscient.
There's a good chance you're right, but it's not the only possibility.
I think that you will find, if you bothered to read my posts, that I was not speaking in absolutes, but about what is the reality for the psychiatrically ill in modern societies. I think you will also find that I talked about the possibility (if he was in Dharamsala) of being recognised as an oracle and having a somewhat better life (the oracles are still tormented by their condition, they just have more respect than under normal circumstances) but he's not in Dharamsala and he's not a recognised oracle. You will also find that what I stated was my advice to GrandPooBah, my advice is based on professional and personal experience with psychiatric illness.

In another thread I was accused of "reptilian coldness" in my comments, it's not true, calmly stating the objective truth is EXACTLY what is needed in these sort of situations. My experience has shown this to be true.

Many people on this thread "pandered" to GrandPooBah ideas, that lead nowhere! The truth in these situations, unfortunately, is ugly. What is the probability he will be recognised as an oracle? What is the probability that, without professional support, he will end up on the periphery of society?

My comments caused him to become angry, why exactly? If you had the flu and I told you that you should drink lots of liquids and keep warm or else the illness will drag out and possibly develop into something much nastier, would that be a reason for you to get angry with me? Would I be talking in absolutes?
:namaste:
PS I'm not the only one that "talks in absolutes" around here but I am the only one taking flak for it. Now what does that tell you?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Adamantine » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:26 am

All I am saying is there are always exceptions... and even in modern society. . . you don't allow for that even as a possibility. Since Grand Poo Bah has found a Buddhist forum---> no our Buddhist forum, that means there is some karmic connection to Buddhism, there is something within him that recognizes a potential for uncovering his Buddha nature... he came here to look for support with that, not for people to tell him to go back to the institutions that treated him carelessly. That is why he got mad at you, I am sure. This is not a social-work forum. We should respond with care from a Buddhist POV, not from a Western-psychiatrist or social-worker POV. You can offer that perspective to him, if he is open to it, but don't be so heavy-handed with it. It's not the appropriate place. That's my opinion, anyway.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Sönam » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:46 am

When I ear about psychiatric expertise I hold my gun ... and eventually shout the sheriff.

"The world outside is filled with crazy behaviors, psychiatric hospital are finally more savety places than others"

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:03 am

Adamantine wrote:All I am saying is there are always exceptions... and even in modern society. . . you don't allow for that even as a possibility. Since Grand Poo Bah has found a Buddhist forum---> no our Buddhist forum, that means there is some karmic connection to Buddhism, there is something within him that recognizes a potential for uncovering his Buddha nature... he came here to look for support with that, not for people to tell him to go back to the institutions that treated him carelessly. That is why he got mad at you, I am sure. This is not a social-work forum. We should respond with care from a Buddhist POV, not from a Western-psychiatrist or social-worker POV. You can offer that perspective to him, if he is open to it, but don't be so heavy-handed with it. It's not the appropriate place. That's my opinion, anyway.
My dear Adamantine, if you look at my other posts I think you will find that I stated very clearly that psychiatric illness and Buddhist practice are not mutually exclusive. I also believe that if you bothered reading my posts you will find that I advised him to find another psychiatrist if he is not happy with the work his current psychiatrist is doing. Support for his psychiatric illness should be professional and is the way to deal with that source of suffering, support for his Buddhist practice should also be "professional" and is the way to deal with the other aspect of his suffering. Both have their role.

But, in all this discussion, let's not confound two very different things: psychiatric illness and "transcendent awareness" (read enlightenment). They are definitely not the same thing. And this was the issue that the OP was trying to get an answer to.

I am surprised that nobody here has advised GPB to find a real Dharma teacher to give him the Sangye Menla practice, I am sure that this practice will benefit him immensely.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:05 pm

The best thing the OP can do is continuing to seek professional help to take care of his health. All the rest should come after that step.

Adamantine, the lady oracle you talked about had circumstances in her life surely closely related to her karma that allowed her to be recognized and deal with that feature. This is not the case of the OP or the great majority of known cases.
I've a master's degree in Psychology and in my informed opinion Greg is simply going by the book without being narrow or confining himself to a mainstream approach to these matters. His advice is sound and lucid, although a little harsh. But sometimes this is the best that can be done though an internet forum.
It may be very negative to the OP to hear about things like channeling other beings and things similar to that as he may plunge even deeper in his fantasy. Without intention you may harm him with that speech.
Unfortunately, what Greg says is true. We have no reason whatsoever to believe there's anything more than a psychiatric disorder going on with our friend. If he doesn't get proper assistance from a qualified health professional, he may face a very problematic future without the opportunity to practice Dharma. Even if there's something more going on, although we don't know.
He should also have guidance from a qualified Dharma teacher.

:anjali:
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby LastLegend » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:14 pm

Grand Poo Bah,

Greg and everyone are talking from what they know in the field, and they cannot give you the advice beyond what they know because they don't want to give you the wrong advice. As for myself, I work as mental health counselor at an assisted living facility and the people that I work with most of them have schizophrenia (as categorized in the DSM). I also want to be on the safe side and had advised you in the similar manner. So don't blame them for that. However, from what had written in your recent posts, I feel that psychiatry and psychology might not be of a great help to you. For this, I really advise you to visit a temple and study Dharma with monks but not particularly doing meditation yet. Tell the monks about your mental condition and tell them that you are there to seek peace of mind. And out of compassion, they will let you visit them as often, sit and participate in daily chanting, housework, even preparing food, etc. Even better if they let you live there. If it is an Asian temple, it is ok even if you don't understand the language. Just being near these peaceful beings can help. If the one temple does not work out, keep trying until you find a suitable one. My hope is you are capable of traveling on your own and functional on your own. With sincerity, strong faith, and determination in Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, you will find your help.

Like some said Buddhism and temples are not the treatment facilities. However, I sincerely believe that with sincerity, faith, and strong determination in Bodhisattvas and Buddhas, you will find your help.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby catmoon » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:23 pm

I thought the above post was so good it was worth locking the topic for a few hours in the hope that everyone will absorb it and digest it thoroughly before proceeding. Topic will be unlocked around 3:00 pm PST.
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Grand Poo Bah » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:26 am

being all to familiar, the replies are found in the cries of those whom help those whom arent. so adue, too those whom don't bleed when wrong is like the bost as if not having been taught caringly as if pillars of strength have already crumbled before me as if there were no-other person whom could rival me with Sidartha as my guide. I can only encourage your offering of my existence as if you read will find in time that you will look for a path to follow. So, is there is something left for me compassion beyond offering, the way you found might end up only what little yous might have imagined as the status quo, for I am back with Christ beyond knowing Buddha like a friend and not seeking me out seems like lostness in belief (view) as if pleasuring yourselves with view is like the red carpet is something noteriety doesn't glance at because I'm beyond as to why your lost sense of presence tempts expression!
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:58 am

May you be well.

May you be happy.

May you be free from suffering.
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby Beatzen » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:35 pm

I stopped reading the early posts in the thread because I recognized a few characteristics in the writing style.

Keep in mind that I'm of the opinion that if you're not a Buddha, you're schizophrenic.

(wow it's snowing heavily outside my coffee shop)

I like tenzin palmo on mental illness. The fundamental teaching of Buddha tells us that sickness is inevitable in human life. Sometimes our bodies get sick, and sometimes our minds get sick- from anger to depression to a panic attack. Such is the cycle of illness ending in death.

One thing to watch out for is constantly shifting attention to yourself, always talking about yourself. Mentally I'll people get very selfish in this way. They become captivated by themselves.
"Cause is not before and Effect is not after"
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Re: Transcendent Awareness or am I really just crazy?

Postby IshNavaya » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:52 am

Beatzen wrote:I stopped reading the early posts in the thread because I recognized a few characteristics in the writing style.

Keep in mind that I'm of the opinion that if you're not a Buddha, you're schizophrenic.

(wow it's snowing heavily outside my coffee shop)

I like tenzin palmo on mental illness. The fundamental teaching of Buddha tells us that sickness is inevitable in human life. Sometimes our bodies get sick, and sometimes our minds get sick- from anger to depression to a panic attack. Such is the cycle of illness ending in death.

One thing to watch out for is constantly shifting attention to yourself, always talking about yourself. Mentally I'll people get very selfish in this way. They become captivated by themselves.


I found this whole discussion very interesting and informative. I was diagnosed bipolar by my family doctor as a teen. Later in life, I became convinced i must be crazy because it was the only logical notion I could fathom to explain the universe. I began seeing a counselor, and though many of the things she told me caused emotional reactions, I can look back and see the wisdom in her words. I was focused upon myself, and that always leads to suffering.

I wanted to be special, I think. Sometimes it's fun to be a little flamboyant. After years of having a generally miserable time thinking solely of myself and, I suspect, secretly enjoying playing the victim in a self-induced science experiment, I was rediagnosed with gluten intolerance. I went vegan and g-free. I began to study Buddhism. I am more at peace than I have ever been. It's just nice. I'm not frantic or sad for extended periods of time anymore.
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