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where did the mahayana come from - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

where did the mahayana come from

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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fig tree
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby fig tree » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:15 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:50 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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jcsuperstar
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:20 am

from what i've gathered, the perfections were perfected over many many life times as a bottisatta, these stories are laid out in the jataka tales

the buddha chose to take a billion life times to do this, but since he did it theres no need for us to, though i guess you could if you wanted to. the difference i see here in mahayana and theravada is the mahayana take these vows as if they have some sort of control over their lives simple by vowing, i think think now of when i was a mahayana buddhist, i couldnt keep my marraige together how was i expected to keep an untold number of future lives together... :jawdrop:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

Bankei
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby Bankei » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:54 am

One of the more recent theories on the origin of the Mahayana is that it was a 'back to basics' movement by forest monks who tried to move away from the up and coming Abhidhammist approach and back to the teachings of the Buddha. The laxness of vinaya was only a later characteristic.

Another theory by Hirakawa, is that the Mahayana arose out of lay communities that grew up around Stupas. I think this theory has been discredited my many scholars now.

Bankei
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Bankei

Heavenstorm
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby Heavenstorm » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:16 am

For a start, the development of Mahayana was never a single movement or one event thingy as portrayed by some in this thread. It was a group of reactionary movements that span over centuries. So, the causes for the rising of Mahayana are numerous although they carry a similar motivation.

Bankei
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby Bankei » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:49 pm

Yes, very good point Heavenstorm

I am recall now that Gregory Schopen has commented that there is a strange lack of Mahayana inscriptions in India until much later - maybe 400AD. Mahayana is supposed to have arisen around the 1st century and there are plenty of inscriptions from this time, but nothing 'mahayana' about them.
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Bankei

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tiltbillings
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:58 am


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srivijaya
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby srivijaya » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:23 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby clw_uk » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:52 pm

I know this is a bit off topic but why did no one agree with the Sarvāstivādas. I cant find any info on them myself
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tiltbillings
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:07 pm


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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:54 pm



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clw_uk
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby clw_uk » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:37 pm

Thanks Tilltbillings

:namaste:
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mountain
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby mountain » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:04 pm

All religions must evolve if they are to become universal. I would see Mahayana as that vehicle which suits some cultures and not others. The history of Buddhism often does not carry such sharp deliniations as many would wish.If we do believe in skillful teaching then it must be dynamic rather than static. Just an opinion.
John

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jcsuperstar
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:17 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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tiltbillings
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:25 pm

Me: "Get Rupert Gethin's THE FOUNDATIONS OF BUDDHISM, which is an inexpensive paperback."

jc: ive seen this book around would you recomend it over all?

It is a very good work by a scholar who is also a Buddhist.

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tiltbillings
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:11 am

Also, I'd recommend Paul Williams', a Mahayana specialist, BUDDHIST THOUGHT. It is in paper and can be gotten cheaply used. His chapter on the origin of the Mahayana is excellent.

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jcsuperstar
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:08 am

thanks
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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clw_uk
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Re: where did the mahayana come from

Postby clw_uk » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:07 am

There is a website here that gives some bare info on the beginings of mahayana and doctrinal differences


http://wisdomquarterly.blogspot.com/200 ... rence.html
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