Positive & life-changing effects and Dharma practice

[Zenshin 善心]

i don't know, and i can only really speak from personal experience but there comes a time when i pause to ask myself - has the path i'm treading had a real, positive and life-changing effect on myself and the relationship i have with those around me? if i can answer yes, then the importance of a question such as "authentic Buddism or not?" falls away for me.

now excuse me while i run for cover and hide.

[Dechen Norbu]

i don't know, and i can only really speak from personal experience but there comes a time when i pause to ask myself - has the path i'm treading had a real, positive and life-changing effect on myself and the relationship i have with those around me? if i can answer yes, then the importance of a question such as "authentic Buddism or not?" falls away for me.

now excuse me while i run for cover and hide.

There's no need for hiding!
But notice that psychotherapy can also do that to one's life. You may become a more adjusted human being, deal better with stress, family, friends, work, you name it. Of course this is usually excellent, but I say usually because many things that make us cling even tighter to samsara also produce those effects. We feel better, change our life, build better relations and so on and so forth. However, you won't attain enlightenment through them. Neither through "inauthentic Buddhism". This is the crux of the matter. Sometimes what is hard is to distinguish what is and what isn't Buddhadharma and by this I mean teachings that can lead one to enlightenment (even if using this word loosely). But I guess this discussion is a bit off topic...

[Zenshin 善心]

i think most of us (although perhaps it's presumptious of me to speak for 'most of us' lol) have to take enlightenment in good faith though - not there's anything necessarily wrong with that. but given that i can't know for a certainty, only entrust to the teaching and teacher, then any tangibley felt difference in relationship to self and others is enough for me.

i guess i can't really put it into words the way i'd like....i agree that psychotherapy can offer all that, but i still feel there is a depth of difference which cuts deeper. i don't know for sure, but i'd imagine psychotherapy doesn't focuss so much on bringing one to an insight on the depth of one's karma and the boundless compassion of Dharmakaya one has been receiving since beginningless time...

[catmoon]

Yup. Psychotherapy is like a garage, full of tools, mechanics, some noise, and not awfully tidy. Cars get fixed there.

Buddhism is like a cathedral, with multicolored lights streaming in from all sides. People find enlightenment there. In such a place, one is not merely repaired, one does not settle for mere functionality. In such a place, one catches a glimpse of a truly exalted purpose, generated from within, shining outwards, and benefitting all who come near.

[LastLegend]

Yup. Psychotherapy is like a garage, full of tools, mechanics, some noise, and not awfully tidy. Cars get fixed there.

Buddhism is like a cathedral, with multicolored lights streaming in from all sides. People find enlightenment there. In such a place, one is not merely repaired, one does not settle for mere functionality. In such a place, one catches a glimpse of a truly exalted purpose, generated from within, shining outwards, and benefitting all who come near.

Well said.

[Fruitzilla]

Yup. Psychotherapy is like a garage, full of tools, mechanics, some noise, and not awfully tidy. Cars get fixed there.

Buddhism is like a cathedral, with multicolored lights streaming in from all sides. People find enlightenment there. In such a place, one is not merely repaired, one does not settle for mere functionality. In such a place, one catches a glimpse of a truly exalted purpose, generated from within, shining outwards, and benefitting all who come near.

Well said.

Hm, from my personal observation, I would say it is a pretty big overgeneralization....

[LastLegend]

Yup. Psychotherapy is like a garage, full of tools, mechanics, some noise, and not awfully tidy. Cars get fixed there.

Buddhism is like a cathedral, with multicolored lights streaming in from all sides. People find enlightenment there. In such a place, one is not merely repaired, one does not settle for mere functionality. In such a place, one catches a glimpse of a truly exalted purpose, generated from within, shining outwards, and benefitting all who come near.

Well said.

Hm, from my personal observation, I would say it is a pretty big overgeneralization....

What is your personal observation?

[Fruitzilla]

What is your personal observation?

That I've seen psychologists, psychotherapists and people of other persuasions and callings whom I was pretty impressed with, and buddhists on the other hand, even ones who had been practicing for decades, I was pretty unimpressed with. Vice versa also ofcourse...
The point I'm trying to make, I think, is that maybe the system you follow is less important than your reason for following it, and your capacity to keep asking questions.

[LastLegend]

I think Catmoon said: Western psychology is only concerned with the temporary and mental well being of the person for the most part. Buddhism is concerned with liberation from all suffering for all beings.

There are some bad Buddhists and good Buddhists also. Then there are some good psychologists as well as bad ones. I guess bad and good here referring to their habits mental and behavioral. Like doing things for self interests versus for the interests of others.

[Willy]

What is your personal observation?

That I've seen psychologists, psychotherapists and people of other persuasions and callings whom I was pretty impressed with, and buddhists on the other hand, even ones who had been practicing for decades, I was pretty unimpressed with. Vice versa also ofcourse...
The point I'm trying to make, I think, is that maybe the system you follow is less important than your reason for following it, and your capacity to keep asking questions.

Agreed - I went into Buddhism thinking I was joining some kind of club, and have over the years had a healthy dose of disillusionments. Don't get me wrong, my closest friends are Buddhists, and there's nothing like the feeling of friendship when practicing together - inspiring each other - but we still have to think for ourselves.

[Willy]

I just came across this article and thought it might be relevant - it's about "less stress" from a Buddhist perspective:
Simple ways to a better life
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/simple-ways-to-a-better-life/story-fn6bn9st-1226019324602

Although it's generalized and oversimplified - sometimes simplicity is refreshing.

[ground]

When "life" transforms into life then this may be called a "life-changing effect". Some may further call it "positive" and others "negative", either way may indicate that the effect is still pending.


Kind regards

[Adamantine]

There are some bad Buddhists and good Buddhists also.

In general, unless we're trying clumsily to evaluate a teacher we are considering taking as a Guru, it is not so helpful to judge others, especially practitioners, other than ourselves..

Our subjectivity may discern terrible qualities in even a Buddha.. A great quote from Lama Tharchin :

However, our phenomena belong only to us, and whatever appears is only a gauge of our own mind. As (Thinley Norbu)Rinpoche points out in the interview, the absolutely crucial point is to examine our own minds. Although good or bad teachers may appear to you, you can only perceive them at the level of your own mind. If our minds are negative, then it is like someone with jaundice who will perceive a pure white snow mountain as yellow. The qualities and faults that we see in another person fully depend upon our own mental capacity. It is never necessary to reject or condemn others since we may later appreciate them with a different view. Practice actually means to purify one’s own mind until all phenomena are perceived as pure. Practice turns our usual focus on others around to focus on ourselves. Usually we take our own faults, which are like the size of a mountain, and try to hide them. Then we find others’ faults, which are like the size of a sesame seed, and display them for everyone to see and talk about. Instead, we should try to practice from a Buddhist point of view. Even though one person may have a hundred different faults, still they have at least one quality. Instead of judging the hundred faults, we should find that one quality and emulate it. Then we will be connected only with positive phenomena, not negative, which will lead us to greater purity. This is the Buddhist way.

[LastLegend]

There are some bad Buddhists and good Buddhists also.

In general, unless we're trying clumsily to evaluate a teacher we are considering taking as a Guru, it is not so helpful to judge others, especially practitioners, other than ourselves..

Our subjectivity may discern terrible qualities in even a Buddha.. A great quote from Lama Tharchin :

However, our phenomena belong only to us, and whatever appears is only a gauge of our own mind. As (Thinley Norbu)Rinpoche points out in the interview, the absolutely crucial point is to examine our own minds. Although good or bad teachers may appear to you, you can only perceive them at the level of your own mind. If our minds are negative, then it is like someone with jaundice who will perceive a pure white snow mountain as yellow. The qualities and faults that we see in another person fully depend upon our own mental capacity. It is never necessary to reject or condemn others since we may later appreciate them with a different view. Practice actually means to purify one’s own mind until all phenomena are perceived as pure. Practice turns our usual focus on others around to focus on ourselves. Usually we take our own faults, which are like the size of a mountain, and try to hide them. Then we find others’ faults, which are like the size of a sesame seed, and display them for everyone to see and talk about. Instead, we should try to practice from a Buddhist point of view. Even though one person may have a hundred different faults, still they have at least one quality. Instead of judging the hundred faults, we should find that one quality and emulate it. Then we will be connected only with positive phenomena, not negative, which will lead us to greater purity. This is the Buddhist way.

I am just making a statement in general that are some good Buddhists and bad Buddhists. I am not particularly interested in investigating whether who is good or who is bad. So what are you rambling about?