Are sutra's to be taken literally?

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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LastLegend
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby LastLegend » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:34 am

If Buddha is full of everything, then by reciting Buddha we will also gain access to what Buddha has. If Buddhas minds and sentient beings mind cannot be separated, then why is salvation in this context hard to understand? Some believe that sentient beings are full of negative karma that Buddha cannot save them. This is true if sentient beings continue to do evil and don't put the personal efforts into practice in order to gain access to what Buddha has-things such as merits, wisdom, etc and these are the tools that will help us exit Samara. Likewise, if a person recites the bad karmic habits of body, speech, and mind, what qualities will the person have? Karma then can be understood at the level of Buddha recitation. Recitation is a way to make the karmic connection with Buddha, then when will this karmic connection will be ripened? In the same way again, if a person recites bad karmic habits of body, speech, and mind, then when will this karmic connection with Samara will be ripened?

Sentient beings have to decide to save themselves first. It is not that the Buddhas don't have such ability. The sentient beings are the ones who don't believe in karma and the method of Buddha recitation. The conditions have to be compatible or right for the result to ripe. If sentient beings don't believe in the method, and continue to do evil, what Buddha can save these sentient beings? Things do not work that way.

So who have the power to save sentient beings but themselves?

Peace.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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Grigoris
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:19 am

The way I see it the Sutras and Tantras are maps showing routes towards a destination. Some maps have lots of detail of altitudes, small paths as well as major roads, grades and angles, etc... some just have the major towns and local tourist traps on them. To get to the destination you grab a map that has the amount of info you need and you start your trip. Truth is though that it's the trip which is the experience and the source of the experience, not the map. Even with a map you have to rely on your capacity to navigate, make decisions regarding the route, change direction along the way, get sidetracked to a scenic point of interest which isn't on the map, etc... The map is just there so you have a rough idea of where you are heading and wha to expect along the way.
:namaste:
PS What I said is metaphorical and not literal! ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Ervin
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Ervin » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:43 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:31 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Grigoris
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:44 pm

It seems that Namdrol is dealing with all Sutra in the same manner as the 6th Patriarch Huineng, when he advised the nun seeking explanations on the MahaParinirvana Sutra to look past the finger and see the moon.
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Indrajala
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Indrajala » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:56 pm

Last edited by Indrajala on Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Sönam
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Sönam » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:58 pm

to look past the finger and see the moon ... or to eat the finger
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Grigoris
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Grigoris » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:07 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:44 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:51 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Malcolm
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:23 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:55 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Malcolm
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:13 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Yes, the sutra's are to be taken literally

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:30 pm

Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Malcolm
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Re: Yes, the sutra's are to be taken literally?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:49 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Yes, the sutra's are to be taken literally

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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kirtu
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby kirtu » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:39 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:17 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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kirtu
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Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby kirtu » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:41 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Are sutra's to be taken literaly?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:00 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


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