Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:03 pm

Tashi delek,

Well that was realy shocking news for me for the moment.

I do appreciate very much the honest detailed report about the Tibetan monastic live anno data 2012.
Rape, attempts to kill, richdom and status, normal human beings etc. well that is quite normal in the Tibetan society and that did not surprise me much.

But what me did surprised, is the karma related to Kalu Rinpoche...... I realy thought that a certain level of Bodhisattva would not meet such a kind of karma, but he told also that Rinpoches would also represent a human being.

There are social graduations regarding the status of the Rinpoches and that was new to me.

But all in all a modern interpretation of a Tulku anno data 2012 and i guess there will change a lot.

Back to the rape. We know it also in the catholic church and to be a monk is not something for everybody and we can be lucky that Buddhahood is inherent present in every sentient being.

According Indian Theravada Vinaya, which was incorporated inside Dorje Thekpa, only monks could attain enlightenment and here the status of a monk is of the utmost importance. But in Dzogchen and Tantra everybody is able to attain Buddhahood. :)
So to be a monk or not that is here the question and not everybodies case and i can imagine that the hormonal system is bouncing for some monks and the resolution would be rape or a whole in the wall...........

But back to Kalu Rinpoches story. I do appreciate his honest report and he tells us some message, or there is a message inside his story for us which i can understand. I only ask myself, why is there no help for Kalu Rinpoche by his many followers ? Is that due to his social status ?

I do wish him anyway success and laxmi and hope he will recover so that he will be able like before, in helping sentient beings :namaste:

OM MATRI MUYE SALE DU
OM MANI PEME HUNG


Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Willy » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:03 pm

Thanks for the information!
User avatar
Willy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:58 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tenzin1 » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:25 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:Every time I hear of monastic sexual abuse, or abuse by those with a vow of celibacy, I really wonder if a vow that is presumably there to remove temptation to indulge in worldy pleasures seems instead to cause more problems for some who take it.

We should bear in mind that many of the monks are not in the monastery voluntarily. They're given to the monastery as children, and are allowed to leave if they so choose after they turn 21. But it's difficult to leave, because they have no marketable skills or education beyond basic math, so they're doomed to menial jobs living in miserable conditions in India/Nepal, unless they're fortunate enough to emigrate to the West, which some ex-monks do. So it's not surprising that some don't deal well with the celibacy vow. Much better to have a completely voluntary monkhood, made up of those who feel called to the tradition as adults.

Gregory makes an excellent point. The effects of trauma can lead to self-medication via drugs and alcohol. It's not like these monks and tulkus can check in to the local psychotherapist's office for trauma therapy. They're left to cope on their own in an institution that can be more about power plays and personal politics than about compassion toward those who run up against the ugly side of celibacy.

I had the impression Yangsi Kalu Rinpoche was already in a monastery from a very young age, where his father was looking after him, but after his father's death, he was transferred to another one. I don't know what that was about, but clearly, it didn't work out for him.

Here's an essay by a Sri Lankan professor at Harvard who's published a number of comments in Sri Lankan newspapers on this same problem in his country. Though some of his comments here are clearly specific to Theravada, his comments on the dangers boy novices face, in points #2 and #3, apply to all Buddhist traditions in which children are institutionalized with celibate adults.

http://www.infolanka.com/org/srilanka/cult/13.htm

Thanks to Mandarava for bringing this issue to our attention. :namaste:
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:35 pm

Has HE Tai Situ Rinpoche replied to this situation? Why doesn't Kalu Rinpoche visit Rinpoche at Sherab Ling? I think changes need to be made in the monastic system, but sometimes one has to work through the system to substantially change it for the better. Tai Situ Rinpoche has always appeared quite modern and adaptable...I think he would incorporate Kalu Rinpoche's recommendations. Who is the "tutor"? Has he replied to the accusations. Bokar Monastery was such a small monastery at the time...at the most there were only 60-80 monks. The authentic Rinpoches have extraordinary clairvoyance...it would seem very unusual-unbelievable-for them not to realize what was happening. Has there been any reaction or public statement issued by any of the other lineage holders.
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tenzin1 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:59 pm

Kalu Rinpoche is said to have the support of Tai Situ, so it seems they have discussed the situation. And in the video, K.R. says his tutor left the monastery. At this point 6 or 7 years later, it might be a challenge to find him (or maybe not).
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:07 pm

but, HE Tai Situ Rinpoche has invited Kalu Rinpoche to Sherab Ling 3 times...apparently Kalu Rinpoche won't go to see him. Kalu Rinpoche lived in a private residence in Bhutan before he moved to Bokar Monastery. He was given the option, openly by Bokar Rinpoche, to stay with his family after his father passed away. He chose to go with Bokar Rinpoche to study in Mirik. But, I agree 9 years old is very young to make such a decision.
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tenzin1 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:03 am

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, Tsering.
I've been thinking about the timeline for his studies and retreat. Something doesn't add up. He didn't begin his studies until after transferring to the monastery in his 9th year. Going by the autobiography of HHDL's oldest brother, it's not uncommon for tulkus to begin their studies at around their 10th year. But in Kalu Rinpoche's case, he went into a 3-year retreat already at 15, after only 5 or possibly 6 years of study. That seems premature. Might he have been sent on retreat to get him out of the way, for some reason? And what happened after completion of the retreat, at 18? Did his studies continue? It sounds like his program got interrupted due to monastery politics, or the murder attempt, or whatever went on. He says he lost faith in the monkhood and all that it means, after the physical attacks he suffered. So maybe he dropped out of his studies after his retreat.

I think this kid has been through a lot. If his teachings aren't up to snuff, how could anyone blame him, after what sounds like a very chaotic monastic experience, plus what looks to me like a premature 3-year retreat? He always has the option of continuing his studies elsewhere. Maybe he's still sorting out his experience, and considering his options. I think his candor and kindness are refreshing, and could stand him in good stead. I haven't seen that type of heart-based personality in any monks or lamas until now. He may not be an intellectual powerhouse, but he has other strengths, and he certainly knows suffering up-close-and-personal. I, for one, will be watching his career with interest.
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby conebeckham » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:15 pm

I'm not sure a bunch of public speculation is a good thing. Just my opinion.....
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:45 pm

The Shangpa Drupkang is next to the main Monastery at Bokar Gonpa. There were three "westerners" in the retreat -- 1 from USA (his room was just 2 doors down from Rinpoches), 1 from Hong Kong and 1 from Taiwan -- along with 16 other Himalayan monks. There is also a guest house next to the Drupkang. So Kalu Rinpoche wasn't 'shipped out' to far to sea. Before you slam Bokar Monastery so harshly, you should visit and meet personally with Khenpo Donyo Rinpoche, the resident abbot. After the retreat, Kalu Rinpoche left with the other retreatants to visit Goshir Gyalsap Rinpoche's Monastery in Sikkim, then Kalu Rinpoche returned to his own Monastery in Sonada for a special reception and birthday celebration. His retreat ended in Sept. 2008. His main issue, it seemed, at that time was to separate the Shangpa Lineage from the Karma Kagyu Lineage. His attitude was more in line with the Gyalwang Drukpa, than Tai Situ Rinpoche. I agree he was young when he entered retreat, but Mingyur Rinpoche was at least a year younger when he entered retreat at Sherab Ling. I just don't think it is fair to only listen to Kalu Rinpoche's side of the story. These are very serious accusations and should be handled in a court or at very least in some sort of environment where the the concerned parties have an opportunity to express their view point.
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tenzin1 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:18 pm

Thanks again, Tsering. Did I slam Bokar Monastery? Just trying to sort out K.R.'s situation. "Stuff" happens at a lot of monasteries, I think this type of problem is to some extent endemic to the monastic system.
I agree it would be good to have an investigation.
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:06 pm

Most of the younger monks at Bokar Monastery are sent to the Shedra in South India. There they receive both a monastic and a secular education. If people want to be part of the solution, it would be better to visit the monasteries in India and Nepal and help to sponsor the secular education of the monks and nuns. There is no public education system in India. Everyone has to pay to go to school. The cost isn't high compared to western countries, but still it is often beyond the reach of most of the population. It is HH Karmapa who has initialized this program to send the monks and nuns to school so that they have other opportunities if they decide they do not want to continue their studies in the monasteries. I know it is expensive to travel to India, but if you have the opportunity, I think it is extremely important to become part of the solution. Very few of the monks are in many of the monasteries are Tibetan any more. Most arrive from an area near the Burmese border. Their families send them to the monasteries to receive some sort of an education. Bokar Khenpo Rinpoche does understand the need for a secular education for the monks and nuns, but they need our help also-either through donations, but more importantly if you can come up with a educational program, if you, yourselves, can teach English, math, science and so on...this would be of enormous benefit. Please donate your time to visit the monasteries, to teach and to develop a scholastic program that could benefit these children.

Personally, I don't know what happened to Kalu Rinpoche. He does have a Monastery in Sonada, but he hasn't been back in 2 years. I don't think any of his monks receive a secular education. In Oct 2009 he, himself, bestowed the Shangpa empowerments to a group of 20 monks who entered retreat at his monastery. He left a month later and has never returned to instruct these monks any further.

While Kalu Rinpoche was in retreat at Bokar Monastery, HH Karmapa visited the Drupkang twice -- once at the end of 2005 and again in 2006. HE Jamgon Khontrul Rinpoche also visited Kalu Rinpoche in retreat 2 or 3 times. Goshir Gyalsap Rinpoche bestowed the Shangpa Empowerments before the retreat and visited annually to give further instructions and wangs. Nobody forgot about Kalu Rinpoche while he was in retreat! He, on the other hand, seems to have quite conveniently forgotten his own Drupkang and the young monks that he, himself, put into retreat at Sonada. How do you think they feel?
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:08 pm

Bokar Shedra Monks attend C.S.T. SCHOOL CAMP NO 6. MUNDGOD

CST Mundgod was founded in 1969 by Mysore Resettlement and Development Agency, which had undertaken the responsibility of rehabilitating Tibetan Refugees in South India. It was taken over by CTSA in 1970. Under the farsighted and skilled management by CTSA, in conjunction with DOE Dharamsala, this small middle school at the time of take over has today emerged as one of the biggest Senior Secondary schools in Tibetan Community offering the widest range of courses. The school has residential facilities at the Senior Secondary level. The school functions with the network of two branch Primary Schools and four Pre-Primary Schools.

http://sherig.org/schools/cstSchools/cstMundgod.htm
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:10 pm

I have a picture of the Bokar monks in their school uniforms, but I don't know how to upload it to this page.
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tenzin1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:04 pm

I would be all for an effort to provide a secular education for Tibetan children if it were apart from monasteries. HHDL has sent monks to study science and other disciplines through a special program at Emory University in the US, in order for them to provide a secular education in the monasteries, but that doesn't address the problem of molestation and abuse that is a risk when housing children with celibate adults. Part of the problem that needs to be addressed is the poverty that causes some families to slough children off to the monasteries as an economic safety valve. Support for school "scholarships" are needed, but also economic opportunities for struggling families.

Kalu Rinpoche seems very disillusioned with the monastic system, though that's not an excuse to abandon one's obligations. And obviously, he has an opportunity to create a positive experiences for the monks under his care, an opportunity that, according to what you say, he has not taken, at least for now. You're right, his monks need him.

We can only hope he sorts himself out in time. Thank you for your patience, and for all the info you've posted. _/\_
Tenzin1
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Willy » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:43 am

kirtu wrote:
Well I am surprised. Clearly there are problems in the institutions. However he himself as a teacher has to make sure that he has cleaned up his act - alcohol and drug addiction - he may (or may not) have overstated the problem. NOTE: I'm not tarring and feathering him at all.

Kirt


His alcohol and drug experience is in the past.
User avatar
Willy
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:58 am

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:11 pm

Nov 16, 2011
HE Jamgon Kontrul Rinpoche arrived at Bokar Gonpa.

Nov 17, 2011
HE Jamgon Kontrul presided over the graduation ceremonies for the first class of Khenpos from Bokar Shedra.

Nov 19, 2011
The General Secretary posted a photo of the graduation class with HE Jamgon Kontrul Rinpoche on his FB page. He referred to HE Jamgon Kontrul Rinpoche as the Holder of the Shangpa Lineage.

Nov 28, 2011
Kalu Rinpoche posted his Confessional video.

That is the time-line. Coincidental? Brave? Political?

Why don’t you visit Bokar Monastery? The second 3-year Shangpa Retreat will finish in Feb or Mar. Before the next retreat goes in, you can request to see the retreat, visit the rooms—investigate for yourselves if Kalu Rinpoche’s accusations are true.

Look, there are no locks on the gates to the Retreat building. If someone wants to leave, they are free to do so. If they leave the Retreat Building, they cannot re-enter.

Furthermore, visit his room in the main Monastery. How far is it from other rooms? Who lived near him? Was he locked in? Who was his tutor? Why don’t you find out who the tutor is and interview him?

Bokar Monastery is a very beautiful Monastery, but it is Indian construction – no insulation – you can’t fart without the whole building hearing it. I have serious doubts and questions regarding Kalu Rinpoche’s claims of rape and attempted murder. Please go and investigate all aspects of the story.

I agree there are systemic problems arising in the monasteries. Most of the problems arise through ethnic tensions. Very few of the monks and nuns are Tibetan – there is now a cross-culture of Nepali, Bhutanese, and other tribal ethnicities, but that doesn’t mean the whole monastic culture should collapse. Go and live in or near the monasteries and see for yourself both the positive and negative aspects of the general culture. If you have concerns, don’t just complain and grip about them, but come up with solutions. If the Monastery doesn’t employ your solutions, then go the villages where the children come from—meet with families, the village elders and the government officials. You can be the implement for change in the Buddhist Monastic System. It is not some dark tower or octopus of conspiracy. They realize there are problems and they are willing to adapt to the changing social and economic environment.
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Tsering927 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:54 pm

I know this may be controversial to post. But since the issue of celibacy is often at the heart of monastic discussions…hmmm…sometimes, not in all cases…people need to remove themselves from the distractions of relationships in order to manifest or realize the power of mind. Ordained Masters don’t repress the bliss of union…they experience it differently with both human and non-human consorts. In the case of human consorts, they don’t physically engage in union, they don’t need to be in the same room or even the same country, but the experience - through mind - is similar, but more intense and clear. Something like this clip from Cocoon. http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi362151961/

It is an experience, not enlightenment. Probably most of you already knew about this, but I just wanted to clarify the point of monasticism is not repression, but authentic cultivation of the power of mind.

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi362151961/
It is said that you can tell whether someone has just eaten by how red his face is. Similarly, you can tell whether people know and practice the Dharma by whether it works as a remedy for their negative emotions and ego-clinging. --Jetsun Mila

The hungry are not satisfied by hearing about food; what they need is to eat. In the same way, just to know about Dharma is useless; it has to be practiced. --Jetsun Mila
User avatar
Tsering927
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:06 pm

Let me ask you something Tsering927.

You come to this forum with the specific intention of dealing with this issue (you have posted nowhere else on the forum) and mainly with the intention of down playing Kalu Rinpoches statement and "advertising" how Bokar Gompa is just fantastic and peachy.

Why?

Who are you really and why do you feel that it is necessary to bury everything Kalu Rinpoche says and aggrandise the monastary? What do you stand to gain or lose from the situation, that you feel you must intervene on this forum? For all we know you may be the one that raped Kalu Rinpoche or tried to kill him and are just trying to cover it up. No, I am not saying you are, but your interest in the subject betrays a degree of involvement.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9274
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:57 pm

Or perhaps someone with the other side of the story, Greg?
Let us hear what this member has to say. Till now I only heard one side, Kalu Rinpoche Yangsi. He made some very serious accusations. It seems things may not be that cut and clear (as they seldom are in this sort of episodes) and this member seems to have the other version of the story. I, for one, don't mind to hear it.
User avatar
Dechen Norbu
 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Kalu Rinpoche shocking news!

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:16 pm

I'm not doubting that there is another side to the story (quite the contrary), but it would be nice to know who is reporting the other side of the story. We know Kalu Rinpoche (and are going on his report) and we may guess at his motivations, but who is Tsering and what is their motivation? If their motivation is pure then there is no reason for them not to tell us its source.

I am not accusing them of anything, just requesting clarification.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9274
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

PreviousNext

Return to Kagyu

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dzoki and 9 guests

>