Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

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Rinchen Dorje
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Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

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Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
pensum
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

Post by pensum »

Fa Dao wrote:Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?
Ideally a follower of dzogchen achieves full and complete liberation in this very body and lifetime, and is not reborn even in a pure land. However as the habitual obscurations accumulated since the beginning of time make this a somewhat rare event, the buddhas and masters of the past have provided those less fortunate with the practice of phowa in order to assure that one is reborn in a pure land, where one has ideal circumstances and is virtually guaranteed full awakening.
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Mr. G
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

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Fa Dao wrote:Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 028#p36028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  • How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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heart
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

Post by heart »

Fa Dao wrote:Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?
Yes, the "Yeshe Lama" actually contains a lot of interesting details about this. Jigme Lingpa explains how to achieve rebirth in any pure land that you favor if you fail to gain realization at death.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Mr. G
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

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heart wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:Does anyone know what the view of Pure Land recitation would be from a Dzogchen persective? Does one actually go to a Pure Land and spend time with a fully enlightened Buddha after they die by doing that practice?
Yes, the "Yeshe Lama" actually contains a lot of interesting details about this. Jigme Lingpa explains how to achieve rebirth in any pure land that you favor if you fail to gain realization at death.

/magnus
Hi magnus,

I was looking to elaborate on the questions by Fa Dao.

From a Dzogchyen POV, does a sutra style Pure Land practitioner attain full Buddhahood? I did not think so, but am unsure.

In that link I provided, would you know how Namdrol used the term "wisdom display" in the context of bardo experience? I still do not see how they are correlated.
  • How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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heart
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

Post by heart »

Mr. G wrote:
Hi magnus,

I was looking to elaborate on the questions by Fa Dao.

From a Dzogchyen POV, does a sutra style Pure Land practitioner attain full Buddhahood? I did not think so, but am unsure.

In that link I provided, would you know how Namdrol used the term "wisdom display" in the context of bardo experience? I still do not see how they are correlated.
Hi Mr. G

I think that from the POV of Dzogchen all other yanas have to eventually practice Dzogchen in order to reach full enlightenment. This is because the non-elaborate and non-conceptual nature of Dzogchen practice that all other practices will in up there, in my understanding.

In the bardo, if you don't recognize you nature in the luminous bardo of dhamatha which is like the primordial pure ground then the sounds, rays and lights will arise along with the peaceful and wrathful manifestations and this is like the ground manifestations. I guess you can call that wisdom display.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Mr. G
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

Post by Mr. G »

Thanks magnus
  • How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

Post by Malcolm »

heart wrote:
In the bardo, if you don't recognize you nature in the luminous bardo of dhamatha which is like the primordial pure ground then the sounds, rays and lights will arise along with the peaceful and wrathful manifestations and this is like the ground manifestations. I guess you can call that wisdom display.
Sounds, lights and rays are the bardo of dharmatā. If you do not recognize those, then you pass into the bardo of rebirth.

N
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Re: Dzogchen view of Pure Land practice?

Post by heart »

Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:
In the bardo, if you don't recognize you nature in the luminous bardo of dhamatha which is like the primordial pure ground then the sounds, rays and lights will arise along with the peaceful and wrathful manifestations and this is like the ground manifestations. I guess you can call that wisdom display.
Sounds, lights and rays are the bardo of dharmatā. If you do not recognize those, then you pass into the bardo of rebirth.

N
Yes, of course you are right. In the end of the painful bardo of dying there is the moment of the ground luminosity or the unfolding of primordial purity. The luminous bardo of dharmatha is the moment of the spontaneous presence, the manifestation of the sounds, rays and lights and the peaceful and wrathful manifestations.


/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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