Dzogchen Study

[krodha]

And also be keen on distinguishing Dzogchen from the lower vehicles. Don't get caught up in the bullshit.

Lower vehicles are not bullshit.

N

Whoa! Never said the lower vehicles are bullshit... What's going on in this thread?! I'm in the misconstrued twilight zone

[Malcolm]

And also be keen on distinguishing Dzogchen from the lower vehicles. Don't get caught up in the bullshit.

Lower vehicles are not bullshit.

N

Whoa! Never said the lower vehicles are bullshit... What's going on in this thread?! I'm in the misconstrued twilight zone

Your statement is not very clear.

[krodha]

I can see how you got that from what I wrote though. Both statements were meant to stand alone. Maybe an "and" in-between both would've been appropriate. Yes not very clear... But now clarified

[Lhug-Pa]

About H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and Dzogchen, there's also the Dalai Lama's commentary on the second volume of Longchenpa Rabjampa's Kindly Bent to Ease Us (Finding Comfort In Ease) that was briefly discussed here:

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... mas#p68329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sönam]

Sonam-la,

Someone has already answered about H.H.'s being Gelugpa and a Dzogchen practitioner/Teacher. Are you suggesting being a monk is somehow antithetical to being a "real" Dzogchenpa?

Being a monk not ... being a Gelugpa possibly, because of particular Gelugpa's view about what is "real"

Sönam

[Malcolm]

Sonam-la,

Someone has already answered about H.H.'s being Gelugpa and a Dzogchen practitioner/Teacher. Are you suggesting being a monk is somehow antithetical to being a "real" Dzogchenpa?

Being a monk not ... being a Gelugpa possibly, because of particular Gelugpa's view about what is "real"

Sönam

Sonam,

Jigme Lingpa's Madhyamaka view was Gelug, as was Shabkar's -- so it is pretty clear that one can hold Gelug Madhyamaka view and still be a realized Dzogchen practitioner.

N

[Virgo]

Yes, very clear. The precious jewel also (His Holliness the 14'th Dalai Lama), and surely many others.

Kevin

[Sönam]

Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam

[Adamantine]

Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam

And what was your experience in your avatar photo?

[Sönam]

Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam

And what was your experience in your avatar photo?

It was not a discussion on the non conditionned

Sönam

[Malcolm]

Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam

Well, a "Gelugpa", and a Gelug Dzogchen practitioner are entirely different animals. The former cannot be expected to understand Dzogchen.

[sangyey]

There's also a book called the Golden Letters with introduction by Namkhai Norbu and contains translations of Garab Dorje's 'Hitting the Essence in Three Words' and Patrul Rinpoche's commentary.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Golden-Letter ... 128&sr=1-1

[Lhug-Pa]

And the following books as well:

http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=256" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.shangshungpublications.org/2 ... malamitra/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/transpaper.htm ... ThreeLines" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Lions-Gaze-Commen ... 1880975041" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haven't studied the above books yet, but what I've read so far of The Golden Letters by Vajranatha is really good too.

[Adamantine]

Sure you are all right ... it's just that I had recently a "hard" discussion with a Gelugpa on what is non conditionned, pretending that Dzogchen is so and so, using HHDL quotations.

Sönam

Well, a "Gelugpa", and a Gelug Dzogchen practitioner are entirely different animals. The former cannot be expected to understand Dzogchen.

Good point!