Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:53 am

Son of Buddha; here is the entire Chapter 22 Transmission. your Burton Watson translation. Everyone should read it. It states the Lotus Sutra is for everyone and the Buddha will help us understand it!

At that time Shakyamuni Buddha rose from his Dharma seat and, manifesting his great supernatural powers, with his right hand patted the heads of the immeasurable bodhisattvas and mahasattvas and spoke these words: "For immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas I have practiced this hard-to-attain Law of anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Now I entrust it to you. You must single-mindedly propagate this Law abroad, causing its benefits to spread far and wide."

Three times he patted the bodhisattvas and mahasattvas on the head and spoke these words: "For immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas I have practiced this hard-to-attain Law of anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Now I entrust it to you. You must accept, uphold, recite, and broadly propagate this Law, causing all living beings everywhere to hear and understand it. Why? Because the Thus Come One has great pity and compassion. He is in no way stingy or begrudging, nor has he any fear. He is able to bestow on living beings the wisdom of the Buddha, the wisdom of the Thus Come One, the wisdom that comes of itself. The Thus Come One is a great giver of gifts to all living beings. You for your part should respond by studying this Law of the Thus Come One. You must not be stingy or begrudging.

"In future ages if there are good man and good women who have faith in the wisdom of the Thus Come One, you should preach and expound the Lotus Sutra for them., so that others may hear and understand it. For in this way you can cause them to gain the Buddha wisdom. If there are living beings who do not believe or accept it, you should use some of the other profound doctrines of the Thus Come One to teach, benefit and bring joy to them. If you do all this, then you will have repaid the debt of gratitude that you owe to the Buddha."

When the bodhisattvas and mahasattvas heard the Buddhas speak these words, they all experienced a great joy that filled their bodies. With even greater reverence than before, they bent their bodies, bowed their heads, pressed their palms together and, facing the Buddha, raised their voices in unison, saying: "We will respectfully carry out all these things just as the World-Honored One has commanded. We beg the World-Honored One to have no concern on this account!"

The multitude of bodhisattvas and mahasattvas repeated these words three times, raising their voices in unison and saying: "We will respectfully carry out all these things just as the World-Honored One has commanded. Therefore we beg the World-Honored One to have no concern on this account!"

At that time Shakyamuni Buddha caused the Buddhas who were emanations of his body and had come from the ten directions to return each one to his original land, saying: "Each of these Buddhas may proceed at his own pleasure. The tower of Many Treasures Buddha may also return to its former position."

When he spoke these words, the immeasurable emanation Buddhas from the ten directions who were seated on lion seats under the jeweled trees, as well as Many Treasures Buddha, Superior Practices, and the others of the greater multitude of boundless asamkhya of bodhisattvas, Shariputra and the other voice-hearers and four kinds of believers, and the heavenly and human beings, asuras and others in all the worlds, hearing what the Buddha had said, were all filled with great joy.
http://www.zhaxizhuoma.net/DHARMA/Tripi ... pter22.htm
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... otus22.htm
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:32 am

Gassho everyone;
I'm issuing a challenge to everyone here -

chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo for 6 months. If you see no positive changes in your lives, then go back to Pure Land and I won't bother you again.
gassho
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Nighthawk » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:13 am

No thanks :)
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Mr. G » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:18 am

rory wrote:Gassho everyone;
I'm issuing a challenge to everyone here -

chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo for 6 months. If you see no positive changes in your lives, then go back to Pure Land and I won't bother you again.
gassho
Rory


Challenge? Seriously?

I don't doubt there would be positive changes. However, I also don't doubt there would be positive changes if someone recited nienfo/nembutsu, the Green Tara mantra, or any other dharani /mantra for 6 months. Trying to force-fit people to certain practices doesn't make sense. There are diverse practices because people are diverse. One size doesn't fit all.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Nighthawk » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:35 am

Rory, I somehow get the impression that you are feeling insecure about your new chosen path and that in order to gain confidence you have to put down other paths. Instead of doing that and trying to convert everyone I think it is best to put the practice to work yourself and gain that confidence you need in a lot more wholesome way.
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Mr. G » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:57 pm

Ryoto wrote:Rory, I somehow get the impression that you are feeling insecure about your new chosen path and that in order to gain confidence you have to put down other paths.


Appropriate statement.

...the received view of Nichiren as an intransigent and systematic critic of all forms of esotericism, and suggests that his criticism should be understood as a strategy of legitimation.
- Lucia Dolce "Criticism and Appropriation: Nichiren's Attitude toward Esoteric Buddhism"

Nevertheless, moderate Nichirenism faces a major challenge, one shared by other religions that make exclusive truth claims: how to cooperate with and respect other traditions, and yet preserve the integrity of one's own. One should also not discount the possibility that confrontational Nichiren exclusivism might reemerge in the future in some unexpected form.
- Jacqueline Stone "Rebuking the Enemies of the Lotus: Nichirenist Exclusivism in Historical Perspective"
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:32 am

Interesting how everyone admires the Lotus Sutra yet refuses to practice it!

Actually it's not a hard challenge at all, my school Kempon Hokke prides itself on scholarship and faith. With Mahayana Buddhists I can discuss the Lotus Sutra, with Nichiren Buddhists, I'll discuss Nichiren Daishonin, with Theravada followers - I'll introduce the Lotus Sutra. This is what my sensei does; Rev. Shamon Tsuchiya, he has a regular career & in his free time acts as a priest. Twice a year he goes to Cambodia and India and distributes free Lotus Sutras to the people there. The power of the sutra is immense and life-changing but you have to have faith and the desire.

Professor Jacqueline Stone of Princeton, the eminent scholar, is also a Nichiren Buddhist and you can read her scholarly articles here:
http://www.princeton.edu/~jstone/lotus- ... hiren.html

I've also just come back from the library and will start reading: Paul Swanson "Foundations of T'ien T'ai Philosophy" if anyone wants to discuss this I'd enjoy it or Professor Stone's articles or anything else to do with the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Buddhism. But personal attacks etc are just a waste of my time & I have zero interest in that.

with gassho
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Son of Buddha » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:08 am

rory wrote:Gassho everyone;
I'm issuing a challenge to everyone here -

chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo for 6 months. If you see no positive changes in your lives, then go back to Pure Land and I won't bother you again.
gassho
Rory


hey rory i cant stand this format on chapter 22 i never said the Buddha didnt try to help us understand the wonderful law,i only said what thye lotus sutra preaches that WHEN WE UNDERSTAND THE WONDERFUL LAW WE WILL BE BUDDHAS,for ordinary people cannot understand thge law ONLY BUDDHAS(revert back to my previous posts for sutra passages)
namu myoho renge kyo isnt the law for the law cant be understood in words the Buddha states that we can ONLY ENTER THRU FAITH which is what namu means (DEVOTION) this was the namu myoho renge kyo is the FAITH that we are entering the LS in but it sir is not the law.

also sir i would rather a person have FAITH in the lotus sutra than chant a bunch of words with no faith at all.if a man can go to a country teaching the Lotus sutra knowing this country hates him and will kill him has the law written on his heart(never disparage)would you not say he has more faith then a man who chants namumyoho renge kyo all day long yet in faith is truely far from the Buddha????

also didnt nichiren say to follow ONLY 1chapter and 2 halves and the REST of the Lotus sutra is hinyana in nature and expedient and along with all the other teachings of the Buddha should be DISCARDED??? also didnt nichiren say that only namu myoho renge kyo could say you AND THE LOTUS SUTRA COULDNT SAVE YOU ANYMORE???? do you need the goshos????

also didnt the Buddha say people would go to amitayus pureland if they had faith in chap 23 of the lotus sutra???didnt the Buddha also say 2 follow the 16 bodhisattvas sutras which includes amitayus Buddhas sutras???you do know amitabha Buddha teaches the wonderful lotus law dont you????
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Mr. G » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:51 pm

rory wrote:Interesting how everyone admires the Lotus Sutra yet refuses to practice it!


I respect all sutras. It doesn't mean I'm going to center a practice around each one every day.

But personal attacks etc are just a waste of my time & I have zero interest in that.


Who is personally attacking you? You fail to understand that there are practitioners who don't prioritize the Lotus Sutra as being the most important sutra. You also don't seem to realize how overbearing it is to have someone constantly claim how superior their teaching and practice is over all others...a claim that cannot be proven. Sorry, but you'll have to do better than "because the sutra claims it's the best and final teaching". :lol:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:08 am

Son of Buddha;
you have confused so many things it was hard to understand your post. Here let me explain things clearly for you.

The Eternal Buddha has 3 bodies: a form body, a dharma body and reward body.
The form body is his earthly incarnations, for our time: Shakyamuni Buddha
his dharma body is the Dharma: the Lotus Sutra
the reward body are the various replica buddhas from other worlds: Vairocana, Amida etc

the Lotus Sutra is the Dharma & of course the title the Daimoku is the Dharma. And the Dharma is the Eternal Buddha. When you chant the Daimoku you are planting the buddha seed in your mind.

Now the above concepts come from Mahayana and the buddha seed from Zhiyi & Tiantai philosophy.

You don't need to worship Amitabha as the Eternal Buddha says in Chapter 2 this was an expedient that is no longer necessary.
Amitabha is a replica body of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni [Ch. 2, Ch 16]
So you should worship Shakyamuni, the Eternal Buddha.
The Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni will give you wisdom to understand the Lotus Sutra (Ch. 22 Transmission)
If you wish when you die you can be reborn in any pure land you wish (Ch 12 Devadatta)

Now as to Nichiren Daishonin
He explains " ...when we receive and keep these Five Characters [Namu Myoho Renge Kyo] He spontaneously yields and assigns [to us] the merits of those Causes and Effect. (Kanjin Honzon Sho, STN, v1.711)

"One receives because of faith; one keeps because of recalling." (Hokke mongu -Text Commentary on the Lotus Sutra)

So you receive the Lotus Sutra from faith in the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni & you keep the sutra by Daimoku. Nichiren Shonin says:

"Especially among the twenty-eight chapters the excellent and auspicious ones are the 'Chapter of Expedience' and the 'Chapter of the Measure of the Life Span." The remaining chapters are branches and leaves. So among your constant works is to read the prose lines of the 'Chapter of Expedience' and the prose lines of the 'Chapter of the Measure of the Life Span." (Gassui Gosho, STN, v.1.290)

Now your duty:
"But for your person as a householder the essence is for you to chant 'Namu Myoho renge kyo' with no other thought and also to make offering to the monks. And also, if it is according to the Sutra text, one should also 'expound it according to their strenghth,' shouldn't one?" (Mastuno dono gohenji, STN. v.2. 1272)

I hope your confusion is cleared up and I have been very clear & straightforward in the presentation of the Dharma and the Lotus Sutra; please re-read the quotes to the Lotus Sutra I posted. Also if you have a quote from Nichiren Daishonin please post the title of the work as many have been proved to be forgeries.
with gassho
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:49 am

[quote="rory"]Son of Buddha;
you have confused so many things it was hard to understand your post. Here let me explain things clearly for you.

The Eternal Buddha has 3 bodies: a form body, a dharma body and reward body.
The form body is his earthly incarnations, for our time: Shakyamuni Buddha
his dharma body is the Dharma: the Lotus Sutra
the reward body are the various replica buddhas from other worlds: Vairocana, Amida etc

the Lotus Sutra is the Dharma & of course the title the Daimoku is the Dharma. And the Dharma is the Eternal Buddha. When you chant the Daimoku you are planting the buddha seed in your mind.

Now the above concepts come from Mahayana and the buddha seed from Zhiyi & Tiantai philosophy.

You don't need to worship Amitabha as the Eternal Buddha says in Chapter 2 this was an expedient that is no longer necessary.
Amitabha is a replica body of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni [Ch. 2, Ch 16]
So you should worship Shakyamuni, the Eternal Buddha.
The Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni will give you wisdom to understand the Lotus Sutra (Ch. 22 Transmission)
If you wish when you die you can be reborn in any pure land you wish (Ch 12 Devadatta)

hey rory i didnt confuse anything i qouted from the lotus sutra why cant you accept what the lotus sutra says??you seem to accept nichiren over the lotus sutra.
the eternal Buddha has 3 bodies that is correct

the daimoku isnt the dharma its a chant its mere words,Lotus sutra chapter 2 expediesnt means page 25 "this law cannot be described,WORDS FALL SILENT BEFORE IT"among other kinds of living beings there are NONE weho can comprehend it except the many bodhisattvas who ARE FIRM IN THE POWER OF (FAITH)
the daimoku is just words the NAMU(devotion) is what mattersdmere words dont give you true shinjin(FAITH) we chant namu amida buddha to show/represent our faith but the chant itslef isnt faith.words are useless without true faith and speraking mere words does not give u faith .

buddha seeds come from the dharma and is also found in the lotus ustra i do not need teintain phylosophy for the concept thank you.

dfors nichiren teach you to make stuff up where in the lotus sutra chapter 2 does it tell you to not worship amida because its and expedient and no loger nessacary????
it doesnt you are trying to warp the verses to get what you want out of it.chapt 2 page 44 "now I,joyfu and fearless,in the midst of the bodhisattvas HONESTLY DISCARD EXPEDIENT MEANS AND WILL PREACH ONLY IN THE UNSURPASSED WAY"nevger did he say to abandon the other sutras what he is saying is im not going to teach in examples as i have been before now i will tell you straight up what the law is to further prove this the Buddha tells you to follow the SUYRAS of AMITAYUS BUDDHA in chapter 7 page 133,or when he says to give other people other suttras in chapter 22 if we were to abandon all expedients he would of NEVER told us that NONE of us can understand the law chap2 pg 31,pg25,pg 24,and that the LAW IS LIKE THIS pg 46 EMPLOYING 10,000 A MILLION EXPEDEITN MEANS THEY ACCORD WITH WHAT IS APPROPRIATE .IN THE PREACHING OF THE LAW

ALLBUDDHA ARE THE ETERNAL BUDDHA are they all not saved trutb theSAME full enlightenment??did the Buddha not state that we will becoem EQUAL without ANY DISTINCTIONS???didnt the eternal Buddha not also say he has MANY MANY DIFFERENT NAMES including shakyamuni the eternal Buddha being called vairocana in the peologue of the lotus sutra(meditation sutra page 362 of the kosei kai edetion

by worshiping ANY FULLY ENLIGHTENED BUDDHA YOU ARE WORDSHIPING THE ETERNAL BUDDHA for ALL Buddhas are FULLY ENLIGTENED thru the the SAME wonderful law.

yes chapter 12 i can as i wish be reborn into ANY pureland i like including amitayus Buddhas pureland now WHY is it bad to want to read and understand the pureland i want to go to????doers it make any sense to ABANDON the purelanmd sutra of amitayus if i intend to go to his pureland doesnt it?:)
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:20 am

hey rory

you still havent shown any verses in the Lotus sutra where the Buddha says to abandon all the other sutras please use chapt 2 or 3 as many nichiren Buddhists do nichiren intentionaly twisted these verses to destroy Buddhism to try to get Budhists to belong to ONLY his school.

i will go ahead and refute these so you wont ever try to lie on them and qoute them as evidence to get rid of the other sutras

i will use kosei kai version and burton watson version.
(kosie kai)chapt 2 page 74 "frankly put aside tactfulness and only proclaim the supreme way
(Burton watson) chapt 2 page 44 "honestly discarding expedeitn means will only preach the unsurpassed way"

NOWHERE in this is the Buddha saying to get rid of all the other sutras,what he is saying is im going to not teach in expedient (right now) i am going to now teach u the straight truth without useing examples(expedients)
hence in chapter 3 the straight truth was preached and all the monks danced with joy.

now chapter 3 "if there are MONKS who for the sake of comprehensive wisdom,seek the law in every direction,pressing palms toghetehr,greatfully accepting desireing only to accept and embrace the sutra of the great vechile,and not accepting a single verse of other sutras TO PERSONS (SUCH AS THIS) IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO PREACH IT.
"if a person,earnest in mind seeks this sutra as though he were seekinmg the Buddhas relics and having gained and greatfully accepteed it that person has no intention of seeking other sutras and HAS NEVER ONCE GIVEN THOUGHT TO THE WRITTINGS OF THE NON-BUDDHIST DOCTRINES TO PERSONS(SUCH AS THIS) IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO PREACH IT

(PERSONS OF THIS TYPE ARE CAPABLE OF BELEIVEING AND UNDERSTANING THIS SUTTA)FOR THEM U SHOULD PREACH IT)

this WHOLE prose starting on page 77-79 is about the TYPE OF PERSONS IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO PREACH TO these are the TYPES of people you are to preach to you are yto look for people like this THESE ARE NOT ORDERS for which you have to OBEY and sir i can PROVE THIS

on page 78 it states it is PERMISSIBLE TO PREACH IT TO PEOPLE WHO IS WITHOUT ANGER so if these are ORDERS to follow as you and nichiren would have us to beleive then you CANNOT preach this sutra to people who have EVER BEEN ANGRY they must be WITHOUT ANGER.

also if you take this a ORDERS then if a person has EVER given a single thought to non Buddhist doctrine YOU CANNOT PREACH IT TO THEM

also you do realise you have to be PSYCIC and a fortune teller to KNOW a person has NEVER been angry,and you would have to be PSYCIC to KNOW a perons has NEVER even thought of anouther relgion,you would also have to be PSYCIC
to KNOW they will NEVER have the intention to seek other sutras BEFORE u preach this sutra to them.
you would have to be a fourtune teller to KNOW that they will only accept this sutra and no other BEFORE you PREACH IT TO THEM.

as you can see these are NOT orders for you to follow these are the TYPES of people who you should seek to preach the lotus sutra to.

if you are tpo take it as literal orders then you urself should not have been taught the lotus sutra and the person whoi taught you has went against the Lord Buddhas ORDERS. luckly for all us these are just the TYPES of people(good people) who we are to teach the dharma too

peace and love 8-)
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby sinweiy » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:38 am

Both Lotus and Infinity Sutra are equally wonderful we should harmonise all the teachings. Lotus, Avatamsaka, Brahma Net are all of the One Vehicle "calibre". if you want to bring Infinity sutra to a higher level, Avatamsaka is known as the Bigger sutra of Infinity.

yea, Lotus Sutra is for "everyone": iccantika, woman animal(Dragon girl, not just a girl, but also an animal dragon), evil ones(Devatata), just that in Chapter 2 : Expedient Devices
"The wisdom of all the Buddhas is extremely profound and unlimited. The gateway to this wisdom is difficult to understand and difficult to enter. It cannot be known by any of the Sound Hearers or Pratyeka Buddhas.

but i think like Devatata and iccantika, if they(the 2 vehicles) turn around in the end, they too can be saved.

yea, there's still an element of faith, affinity, difficult to understand and difficult to enter element.

Same as Infinity Sutra, there's also the element of faith, affinity, difficult to understand element. we said it's for all capacity from the lowest to the highest calibre. Everyone including woman, animals, ghosts, Sound Hearers or Pratyeka Buddhas, evil ones, iccantika, IF believe in the end will also be save.

Vow 18

Provided I become a Buddha, if the beings of the ten quarters who after having heard my name, and thus awakened their highest faith and aspiration of re-birth in that country of mine, even they have recollected such a thought for ten times only, they are destinated to be born there, with the exception of those who have committed the five deadly sins (Anantarya), and who have blasphemed the orthodox Law (Dharma), otherwise may I not attain the enlightenment.


this need to be clarify further in Contemplation Sutra, that Prince Ajatashatru also did all that evil but was also save eventually, when he turn over a new leaf and have faith in the end. if a person slander pureland (and lotus), it also mean they disbelieve, disbelieve is the blocking factor of not be able to be save. but if that block is removed, same as Lotus, they are saved.

so we must harmonise all Buddha's teaching. as Buddha said, if we want Buddha dharma to flourish, only way is for the sangha to praise each other. mappo happen because sangha are fighting at each other.
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:08 am

Chapter 22 Transmission:

"Three times he patted the bodhisattvas and mahasattvas on the head and spoke these words: "For immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas I have practiced this hard-to-attain Law of anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Now I entrust it to you. You must accept, uphold, recite, and broadly propagate this Law, causing all living beings everywhere to hear and understand it. Why? Because the Thus Come One has great pity and compassion. He is in no way stingy or begrudging, nor has he any fear. He is able to bestow on living beings the wisdom of the Buddha, the wisdom of the Thus Come One, the wisdom that comes of itself. The Thus Come One is a great giver of gifts to all living beings. You for your part should respond by studying this Law of the Thus Come One. You must not be stingy or begrudging.

"In future ages if there are good man and good women who have faith in the wisdom of the Thus Come One, you should preach and expound the Lotus Sutra for them., so that others may hear and understand it. For in this way you can cause them to gain the Buddha wisdom. If there are living beings who do not believe or accept it, you should use some of the other profound doctrines of the Thus Come One to teach, benefit and bring joy to them. If you do all this, then you will have repaid the debt of gratitude that you owe to the Buddha."
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... otus22.htm

Chapter of the Parable” (T.9.16a), “Only rejoicing to receive and keep the Great Vehicle Sutra Canon, not even receiving one verse of other Sutras”;
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... lotus3.htm

gassho
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby sinweiy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:30 pm

"In future ages if there are good man and good women who have faith in the wisdom of the Thus Come One, you should preach and expound the Lotus Sutra for them., so that others may hear and understand it. For in this way you can cause them to gain the Buddha wisdom. If there are living beings who do not believe or accept it, you should use some of the other profound doctrines of the Thus Come One to teach, benefit and bring joy to them. If you do all this, then you will have repaid the debt of gratitude that you owe to the Buddha."


Chapter of the Parable” (T.9.16a), “Only rejoicing to receive and keep the Great Vehicle Sutra Canon, not even receiving one verse of other Sutras”;
i didn't see the quote in the link(Chapter 3 : A Parable)?
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/reso ... lotus3.htm

Thereupon, Shariputra, with joyful enthusiasm, rose, joined his palms together, and gazed reverently at the honored one�s face and said to the Buddha, "Now, having heard this sound of Dharma from the World Honored One, my heart rejocies and I have obtained what I never had before."

"What is the reason? In the past, I heard a Dharma such as this from the Buddha, and saw the Bodhisattvas receive predictions of Buddhahood, but we had no part in this matter. I was deeply hurt that I had lost the limitless knowledge and vision of the Thus Come One.

"World Honored One, when I used to dwell alone in mountain forests at the foot of trees, whether sitting or walking I continually had this thought: �We all identically enter into the Dharma nature. Why has The Thus Come One shown us deliverance by means of the Small Vehicle Dharma? It is our fault, not the World Honored One�s.�

"What is the reason? If we had waited for the lecture on the cause of realizing Anuttarasamyaksambodhi, we should certainly have been delivered by means of the Great Vehicle. But we did not understand that expedient devices were spoken in accord with what was appropriate. Therefore, when we first heard the BuddhaDharma, upon encountering it we immediately believed and accepted it, considered it, and took certification.

"World Honored One, from of old I have, day and night, continually reproached myself. Now, from the Buddha, I have heard what I never heard before, this Dharma which has never been before, and all my doubts have been severed. My body and mind are blissfull and I am at peace.


nevertheless, we must know what is Lotus Sutra essense All about or trying to teach? can't just see word for word.
i think of 2, timeless and Equanimity (upekkha), that we(including the female, animal, bad ones etc) are All Buddhas. get rid of all kind of dualism. :smile:
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Son of Buddha » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:10 pm

hey RORY

ive already shown in chapter 3 it is NOT talking about WHAT YOU SHOULD DO WHEN YOU ACCEPT THE LOTUS LAW

it says WHO IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO PREACH TOO.

these people who have NOT EVEN HEARD OF THE LAW YET cause it hasnt even been preached to them,this whole prose was taught cause the Buddha didnt want us to RECKLESSLY proclaim the law and you know why dont you????if they slander they will go to hell,hence why he states the TYPES and EXAMPLES of people we are to teach the law too.which is why if you too took the time to read the verse you would see it states to PEOPLE SUCH AS THIS it is permissible to teach the law CAUSE they have a higher probabity OF BELEIVING AND ACCEPTING THE LAW.

no sir you want it to say AFTER THEY ACCEPT THE LAW abandon all other sutras well sir sorry it doesnt say that.these people in this prose havent even been taught the law yet.

also u asked for some nichiren qoutes
gosho THE OBJECT OF DEVOTION FOR OBSERVING THE MIND

concering the lotus sutra "ALL THE TEACHINGS OTHER THAN THE "ONE CHAPTER AND 2 HALVES" ARE HINAYANA IN ANTURE AND ERRONEOUS NOT ONLY DO THEY FAIL TO LEAD TO ENLIGHTENMENT BUT ALSO THEY LACK THE TRUTH THOSE WHO BELEIVE IN THEM ARE MEAGER IN VIRTUE,HEAVY WITH DEFILEM,ENT,IGNORANT,POOR,
THE FIRST HALF OF THE LOTUS SUTRA AND THE SUTRAS PROCEEDING IT CONTAIN THE PERFECT TEACHING BUT THIS IS NOT A CAUSE FOR BUDDHA HOOD MUCH LESS SO ARE TEACHINGS OF A HINYANA NATURE

nichiren states ALL of the lotus sutra is hinyana in nature and that it is to be ABANDONED along with all the other ERRRONEOUS doctrines of the Buddha (eccept the 1 chap and 2 halves) so as nichiren states u are ignorant and poor in virture for BELEIVEING ijn chapt 3 of the lotus sutra why are you even qouteing it???

GOSHO THE TEACHING FOR THE LATTER DAY
Now in the latter day of the law NEITHER THE LOTUS SUTRA nor the other sutras lead to enlightenment ONLY namu myho renge kyo CAN DO SO
to mix other practices with ththis CHANT is a grave error

so let me get thois straight the LOTUS SUTRA cant lead you to enlightenemtn but the chant of faith in the lotus sutra can ONLY lead you to enlightenemt???????

so if we follow nichiren then we are to abandon ALL of Budhism and o nly folow the ONE CHAPTER AND 2 HALVES of the lotus sutra THATS IT.

(also they are authentic goshos gott em off hokke kempon website :) :applause:
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:13 am

I will discuss the Lotus Sutra in the post & in the next Nichiren Daishonin and my school Kempon Hokke

Neither of you seem to have read the entire Lotus Sutra: Ch 3 is about who Shariputra transmits to, Chap 15 the Bodhisattvas from many worlds are told it is the task of the Bodhisattvas from Under the Earth to proclaim the Lotus Sutra. And in Chapter 22 the Buddha tells them to do so & to good men & women.

In Chapter 3 of the Lotus Sutra the Buddha tells Shariputra to whom he, Shariputra, should expound the Lotus Sutra:

Lotus Sutra Chapter 3 " A Parable"

f there be those who, with mind intent,
Seek the Buddha.s Sharira,
Or who likewise seek the Sutras,
And attaining them hold them atop their crowns,
Such people will never again
Resolve to seek other Sutras

Nor ever have the thought
To seek the writings of outside ways,
For people such as these,
You may speak it.
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... lotus3.htm

In Chapter 15 "Welling from the Earth" The Bodhisattvas-Mahasattvas from other worlds wish to proclaim the Lotus Sutra but the Buddha Shakyamuni replies
it is the duty of the Bodhisattvas from under the earth.
" Stop! Good men, you do not need to protect and maintain this Sutra. Why not? Within my Saha World itself there are Bodhisattvas Mahasattvas equal in number to the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers, each of whom has a retinue equal in number to the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers. After my quiescence, all of them will protect, uphold, read, recite, and vastly proclaim this Sutra."
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... otus15.htm

And in Chapter 22 'The Trasmission" / "The Entrustment" The Buddha Shakyamuni tells the Bodhisattvas from Under the Earth to transmit this Dharma widley:
I have cultivated and practiced the rare Dharmas of anuttarasamyaksambodhi I now entrust them to all of you. You should receive, uphold, read, recite, and vastly proclaim this Dharma, causing all living beings to hear and understand it.
"In the future, if there is a good man or a good woman who believes in the Thus Come One�s wisdom, you should expound the Dharma Flower Sutra to that person, causing the person to hear and understand and obtain the Buddha�s wisdom.
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... otus22.htm

In Nichiren Buddhism, the devoted followers are considered to be the Bodhisattvas from Under the Earth; and obeying the Sutra & chapter 22; I have proclaimed this Dharma of the Lotus Sutra to you. There is no more silly quibbling. You can accept it or reject it but you have heard it!

gassho
Rory
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:34 am

The Teachings of the Kempon Hokke School: worship the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni and follow only the Lotus Sutra;

Nichiren shonin says in Kaimoku-sho,
"The Lotus Sutra alone among them represents the true words of our Lord Sakyamuni Buddha and various Buddhas residing in the world throughout the universe in the past, present, and future."

Rev. Tsuchiya of Kempon Hokke's commentary:
t means that the Lotus Sutra is the only sutra for getting an enlightenment and becoming a Buddha. It is useless to practice with other sutras to get an enlightenment for people in Mappo era. But it means not that you should not refer to other sutras preached by the Buddha Sakyamuni. Nichiren shonin also had quoted many sutras to his works.
http://www.kempon.net/contents%20usa.htm

So, Kempon Hokke is recommending especially to read the Agama Sutra such as Dammapada. Because it is said that those sutras closely related to actual teachings of the historical Buddha Sakyamuni. We respect it as an elementary text book of Buddhism. The Lotus Sutra is superior than any other sutras. But it is very difficult to understand its philosophy. So, you need to strongly believe the Lotus Sutra which preaches about the truth of the Buddha Sakyamuni at first.
http://www.kempon.net/contents%20usa.htm

"The eternal Buddha Shakamuni is making efforts to give us the truth, wisdom and compassion at all times. The Buddha attempts to unify and harmonize our mind and our society. Therefore you must have a strong faith to Lotus sutra and the eternal Buddha in the first place. Then you have to encourage the faith of Lotus sutra to the people. It is most important thing to get the guidance of the Buddha and protection from Gods."
http://www.kempon.net/Practice%20of%20c ... aimoku.htm

Nichiren Daishonin: "The Sutra is the Hokekyo ; the Foremost Great Dharma of Exoteric and Esoteric. The Buddha is the Buddha Shakya the Foremost Supreme Buddha. The Practicer (gyoja) resembles the Practicer of the Hokekyo. The three matters (san ji) having corresponded the single vow of the lay donor will surely be achieved, will it not?" (Niita dono gosho, STN, v. 2,1752)
http://www.kempon.net/lamont%20direct%20way.htm

The above are the true teachings of the Kempon Hokke school.I have provided references & links so people may see and judge for themselves.
gassho
Rory
ps if you wish to discuss the teachings of Kempon Hokke please quote and link from the website.
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby Son of Buddha » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:31 am

RORY RORY RORY

you completely ignored the goshos of nichiren i posted which stated ALL of the lotus sutra is erroneous except the "ONE chapter and 2 halves" and if you follow the other chapters such as chapter 3 u are poor in virture and wrong.

the other gosho i posted states that the lotus sutra cannot help you get to enlighhtenemnt ONLY the chant of faith in the lotus sutra can get you to enlightenment.(which is in affect abandoning the teachings of th lotus sutra for mere lipservice of the name)

:jumping: i like how you qoute a verse and dont put it into context of where you have qouted it from this is called distorting the lotus sutra and is shameful

(1)WHAT IS THE COONTEXT???? is it WHO IT IS PERMISSABLE TO PREACH or what you are to do after you have already been taught the lotus sutra?????

(2) :rolling: these people have NOT even been taught the lotus sutra why didnt you HIGHLGHT THAT PART "TO SUCH PEOPLE AS THESE""THEN YOU MAY PRECH IT TO"
TYPES of people like this can accept and beleive in the lotus sutra

again for the 5th time these are the TYPES(EXAMPLES) of people who you are trying to find to teach the lotus sutra too HENCE the CONTEXT WHO IT IS PERMISSABLE TO PREACH TO. do this make sense to you??


to such people as this you may preach it to,to such people as this you may preach it to,you are implying that these peop;le HAVE ALREADY heard the sutra and are to abandon the other sutras,
why dont you tell the truth these people havent even been taught the sutra and these are the TYPES AND PEOPLE ((((SUCH AS THESE))))))) WHO IT IS PERMISSABLE TO TEACH THE SUTRA TOO

again for the 6th timee READ THE LAST SENTENCE

only pleased to receive and keep
the great vehicle sutra even without accepting a single verse of any other sutra TO SUCH PEOPLE AS THESE THEN YOU MAY PREACH IT . again in CONTEXT of WHGO IT IS PERMISSILKE TO PREACH (the TYPES of people you are lookingf for to preach the lotus sutra too)

READ the LAST paragraph
SUCH PEOPLE AS THESE ARE ABLE TO BELEIVE AND ACCEPT YOU SHOULDTO THEM PREACH the lotus sutra

this WHOLE prose is about they TYPE of people you are looking for to preach the lotus sutra to.
so how about you follow the lotus sutra and quit tryng to distort its teachings
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Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land

Postby rory » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:12 am

Lotus Sutra Chapter 22:


" I have cultivated and practiced the rare Dharmas of anuttarasamyaksambodhi I now entrust them to all of you. You should receive, uphold, read, recite, and vastly proclaim this Dharma, causing all living beings to hear and understand it.

In the future, if there is a good man or a good woman who believes in the Thus Come One's wisdom, you should expound the Dharma Flower Sutra to that person, causing the person to hear and understand and obtain the Buddha's wisdom."
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/reso ... otus22.htm

gassho
Rory

ps: I suggest you return to the Pure Land forum & leave the rest of us to intelligent & respectful discussion.
Dharani of Amoghapasa Avalokitesvara:

Om amogha-padma-pasa-krodhakarsaya praveshaya maha-pashupati-yama-varuna-kuvera
brahma-vesa-dhara padma-kula-samayan hum hum

heart mantra: Om amogha vijaya hum phat
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