Sex in pureland?

Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:14 am

Can we get something frackin' straight here (this is a response to konchog highlighting certain points in the tantra quote and to "accusations" by other posters) I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT SEX IS SOMETHING THAT IS WRONG OR TO BE AVOIDED! Are we clear now?

As to this:
Heterosexual yogis have it so easy ....
One of the female forms pictured above is not a genetic (XX) woman. Secondly it's not so easy coz many heterosexual yogis do not respect women and thus will gain no Success as outlined by Vajrayogini in the Tantra AND they do not satisfy one of the other important criteria:
...instantly to those who desire the welfare of all beings

And finally, if you (or any of the other aspiring yogis in this thread) bother reading the whole of the Tantra, to which I provided a link, the practices necessary to achieve realisation through this Tantra are nowhere near as simple as "shagging" a "fit bird". I recommend some of the aspiring yogis here to go and read the entire practice, I imagine that the majority of them will quickly abandon any thoughts and wishes of appeasing Vajrayogini or any other dakini for that matter!
:namaste:
PS This clause here may also be of interest:
Mother, sister, wife, maternal aunt, niece, paternal aunt, mother in law, and all other caste relations
As it basically says that all these female forms should also be subjects of sexual union by the yogi!
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Adamantine » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:37 am

gregkavarnos wrote:*snip*



Greg, have you ever received oral teachings on this tantra?


I would suggest that there are people here who have received teachings on union yogas.. who have a different spin on the type of politically-correct overkill you are trying to douse the tantras in. I would be careful not to interpret things without the proper key---> a direct link (Lama) to the oral tradition.... many of the tantras are written in coded language.

That said, I am sure you are right that union yogas do not involve the generic British concept of "shagging a fit bird". However, that's a straw man because nobody here claimed they did.
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:44 am

Namdrol wrote:Nevertheless, the definition of the ideal woman partner, laid out in countless tantras, is the padmini i.e. prominent, large breasts, narrow waist, etc., i.e., completely sexist.
I think that you will find that in the abovementioned tantra the yogi is to go beyond the objectification of all dualising discrimination to the point that not only do they "ignore" conventions laid down by caste and blood relations, but even to the point of going beyond limiting themselves to the satisfying of human female forms. Thus, the yogi, by seeing ALL female forms as Vajrayogini, sexually (and this term is used in the broadest possible sense in the text) satisfies non-human female forms too: demons, nagas, animals, etc...

Say hello to your dakini girlfriend AlexanderS!
7.jpg
7.jpg (8.39 KiB) Viewed 743 times
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby catmoon » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:13 am

(facepalm)
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Paul » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:53 am

catmoon wrote:(facepalm)


:good:
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby AlexanderS » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:09 am

Namdrol wrote:
simhanada wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Nevertheless, the definition of the ideal woman partner, laid out in countless tantras, is the padmini i.e. prominent, large breasts, narrow waist, etc., i.e., completely sexist.

N


i.e. Dolly Parton.....



I think this is more what they had in mine:

Image


To be honest, I wouldn't. Maybe if I was 70 years old, otherwise I'd have to close my eyes and think of England.
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Adamantine » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:19 am

i am getting so very confused now :thinking: :shock:
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:23 am

Different strokes for different folks my dear Adamantine!
Image
...many of the tantras are written in coded language.
This is very true, but is it always the case, or do we maybe hope that it is? Why would we hope that it is all coded and metaphorical? Since it will allow us to remain in our safe little (ego-centred) comfort zone. It seems to me that the logic of the Candamaharosana Tantra seems to revolve around the same logic that drives the Ganapuja: a revolt against Brahmanic concepts of the social inferiority and impure or unclean status of women through a "sexual" "indulgence" in everything considered unclean (and taboo) about them and their deification as the zenith of purity and objective value. Yet another (tantric) method to break out of the subjective/relative dualism regarding objects and their innate nature. Pulling the pendulum across to its opposite extreme in order to "force" an objective balance of view.

You are right about getting oral instructions though, but it's not always the case that the oral instructions are "contradictory" to the content of the text.
:namaste:
PS Maybe this thread should be moved (or bits of it split off) to the tantra section?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:44 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I think that you will find that in the abovementioned tantra the yogi is to go beyond the objectification of all dualising discrimination ...
7.jpg


The padmini is not explicitly described in this tantra, however, like them all it says to the male student:

"Now then, one should offer the attractive, youthful, decorated female prajñā" etc.

As to your general point, yes, all women are to be regarded as embodiments of yogini, just as all men are to be regarded as embodiments of heruka.

N
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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Astus » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:49 pm

Here's Ven. Yinshun's view of the pure lands of Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru. He says basically that the western land is for those with renunciation, and the eastern land is for those with a more worldly attitude.

Those who are timid and inferior,
Wish to have an easy path to practice.

The Buddha has special skillful means
To embrace and protect these beginners.

Of these, one of the most special
Is to be reborn in the Most Blissful Land.
Blessed by the Power of Amitabha Buddha,
They will not retreat from attaining enlightenment.

For those who cannot renounce worldly pleasures
But wish to attain enlightenment,
The Medicine Buddha vowed compassionately
To provide a Pure Land in the east.

(Yinshun: The Way to Buddhahood, Taking the Easy Path, v. 139-142)
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

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True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:57 pm

Astus wrote:Here's Ven. Yinshun's view of the pure lands of Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru. He says basically that the western land is for those with renunciation, and the eastern land is for those with a more worldly attitude.

Those who are timid and inferior,
Wish to have an easy path to practice.

The Buddha has special skillful means
To embrace and protect these beginners.

Of these, one of the most special
Is to be reborn in the Most Blissful Land.
Blessed by the Power of Amitabha Buddha,
They will not retreat from attaining enlightenment.

For those who cannot renounce worldly pleasures
But wish to attain enlightenment,
The Medicine Buddha vowed compassionately
To provide a Pure Land in the east.

(Yinshun: The Way to Buddhahood, Taking the Easy Path, v. 139-142)
Oh right, this thread was about sex in purelands :) That does make sense as the Medicine Buddha fulfills various material wishes.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

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Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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Re: Sex in pureland?

Postby sinweiy » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:33 am

Astus wrote:Here's Ven. Yinshun's view of the pure lands of Amitabha and Bhaisajyaguru. He says basically that the western land is for those with renunciation, and the eastern land is for those with a more worldly attitude.

Those who are timid and inferior,
Wish to have an easy path to practice.

The Buddha has special skillful means
To embrace and protect these beginners.

Of these, one of the most special
Is to be reborn in the Most Blissful Land.
Blessed by the Power of Amitabha Buddha,
They will not retreat from attaining enlightenment.

For those who cannot renounce worldly pleasures
But wish to attain enlightenment,
The Medicine Buddha vowed compassionately
To provide a Pure Land in the east.

(Yinshun: The Way to Buddhahood, Taking the Easy Path, v. 139-142)


good info though.
_/\_
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