The Platform Sutra

Discuss and learn about the traditional scriptures.

Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby some1 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:07 am

Huifeng wrote:If others are interested in participating, even if it is just to read and not post or whatever, please just let us know in this thread.
:thanks:

Please count me in, at least as an audit student for this class on 六祖坛经 :thanks:
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:29 am

Great, we're up to five now :twothumbsup:
I hope this gets off the ground.

Best,
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby kirtu » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:35 am

Huifeng wrote: I'll count Ngawang Drolma as one above, and maybe Anders and Kirtu, too?


:thumbsup: I'm in.

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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Inge » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:15 am

I would also like to participate.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby White Lotus » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:02 pm

have just finished reading the Plaform Sutra. im in if you'll have me.
rgds, flakey. xxx
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in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:17 pm

I have Red Pines line by line translation and would be happy to post sections if needed.

:namaste:
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:29 am

If I may, I would suggest that Venerable's teaching and member discussion, questions, and processing of information would be far easier to do in our chat room. I know many us are on different time but I'm sure we can it out. The chat room is very smooth no ons gets booted which minimizes distractions so we can all concentrate. Please share your feelings and thoughts about my suggestion. Feedback is so valuable :)

kind wishes,
Laura

You can take a look at the chat room here:

http://chat.parachat.com/chat/login.htm ... C0&lang=en
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Huifeng » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:18 am

Ngawang Drolma wrote:If I may, I would suggest that Venerable's teaching and member discussion, questions, and processing of information would be far easier to do in our chat room. I know many us are on different time but I'm sure we can it out. The chat room is very smooth no ons gets booted which minimizes distractions so we can all concentrate. Please share your feelings and thoughts about my suggestion. Feedback is so valuable :)

kind wishes,
Laura

You can take a look at the chat room here:

http://chat.parachat.com/chat/login.htm ... C0&lang=en


Helpful, but that necessitates everyone online at the same time. Moreover, usual posting means that it is easier to refer back to the text in question, give reference material, etc.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby catmoon » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:26 am

Although I am inclined to listen to anything Ven. Huifeng has to say, I would like a 50-word very general summary of what sort of teachings we would be looking at. You see I have no idea whatsoever what the subject matter might be.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Anders » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:10 am

The platform scripture is, more or less, the seminal scripture of the Chan school and probably the most widely read Chan text out there.

It tells the story of how Huineng, an illiterate woodcutter, became suddenly enlightened after hearing just one passage from the Diamond Sutra, sought out the fifth ancestor and inherited the robe and bowl (as insignia of his awakening and certification to carry on his teaching) thus becoming the sixth ancestor, much to the chagrin of the more educated and ambitious parts of the assembly.

The rest of the text then records a number of his sermons and dialogues. Those are characterised by being a blend of prajnaparamita and tathagatagarbha teachings, all presented in a more colloquial style than the sutras and generally being quite readable and accessible, even to a modern reader. Since Huineng is also the latest ancestor that all Chan/Zen/Soen/Thien schools have in common, he (or the scripture attributed to him) is also a bit of a unifying figure in the tradition.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby catmoon » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:21 am

Oho. Yes I would like to take a look at that then. :thanks:
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby muni » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:50 am

Three beautiful expressions, share them. Are they from Huineng?

The body is the Bodhi tree
The mind is like a clear mirror
At all times we must strive to polish it.
And must not let the dust collect.

Bodhi originally has no tree
The mirror also has no stand
Buddha nature is always clear and pure.
Where is the room for dust?

The mind is the Bodhi tree
The body is the mirror stand
The mirror is originally clear and pure
Where can it be stained by dust?


I will look with interess. _/\_
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:14 pm

Huifeng wrote:
Ngawang Drolma wrote:If I may, I would suggest that Venerable's teaching and member discussion, questions, and processing of information would be far easier to do in our chat room. I know many us are on different time but I'm sure we can it out. The chat room is very smooth no ons gets booted which minimizes distractions so we can all concentrate. Please share your feelings and thoughts about my suggestion. Feedback is so valuable :)

kind wishes,
Laura

You can take a look at the chat room here:

http://chat.parachat.com/chat/login.htm ... C0&lang=en


Helpful, but that necessitates everyone online at the same time. Moreover, usual posting means that


Dear Venerable, this is true.It's probably better to do it with normal posting.

Thanks :)
Laura
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby some1 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:26 am

muni wrote:Three beautiful expressions, share them. Are they from Huineng?

The second stanza/gatha is by Huineng. For those who are new to this topic, you may read some background info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng (note: Wikipedia may however contain some inaccurate info)
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby muni » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:47 am

some1 wrote:
muni wrote:Three beautiful expressions, share them. Are they from Huineng?

The second stanza/gatha is by Huineng. For those who are new to this topic, you may read some background info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng (note: Wikipedia may however contain some inaccurate info)


Thank you, some1.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Anders » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:01 pm

The last two are both attributed to Huineng, as rebuttals to the first verse. In the dunghuang edition, it's the last verse that is recorded, in later ones, the second.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby muni » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:12 am

Thank you.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby White Lotus » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:59 pm

It seems to me that the Buddha nature/embryo and the Prajna-paramita/emptiness elements are seen by many... but the dharmakaya/reality body/tathata buddha womb is utterly fundamental in understanding Hui neng.

the old master hides Hui Neng behind the venerated robe and teaches him one thiing and one thing only... suchness. (reality/dharma as it is - none other than the Dharmakaya.)

emptiness... all is empty.
buddha nature... we all have it.
buddha womb... we all see it, live and move and have our being in it.

it has been said that Suchness... "as things are" is the reality of realities, and yet it is totally empty. Things as they are appear to be changing and subject to defilement, but this is only on a subjective level... actually the reality body is always before our eyes. reality is utterly indestructible as one unity/thing. the spirit or womb of the buddha. the reality body which is truth. dharmakaya refers to the truth of reality, which is totally empty and yet utterly real.

The Old Master transmitted to Hui Neng in the Autobiography at the beginning of the Platform Sutra:
One Should be able [anyone] to realize the essence of Mind [Suchness] all the time [its easy]. All things will then be free from restraint (ie emancipated). Once the Tathata (Suchness, another name for the Essence of Mind) is known, [and who doesnt know it?] one will be free from delusion forever, and in all circumstances one's mind will be in a state of "Thusness". Such a state of mind is absolute truth. If you can see things in such a frame of mind you will have known the Essence of mind, which is supreme enlightenment.


Hui Neng:
"I at once became thoroughly enlightened, and realized that all things in the Universe [all Dharmas] are the Essence of Mind [suchness] itself."


Hui Neng to the Old Master:
"Who would have thought, "I said to the Patriarch, "That the essence of mind
is intrinsically pure!"
[it seems defiled and conditioned, yet fundamentally is immutable, pure and perfect. its what you see, hear and taste every day. the walking to work, the cup of tea, the blaring of the TV, etc.]

please note, that i include [ ] parenthesese where i make a comment of my own. WL. x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby Huifeng » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:25 am

I recommend AGAINST using the translation of the text which renders "zi xing" as "essence of mind". It is not a translation, but already an interpretation. Note, too, that in the translation used above, the word "[suchness]" is in the [...], indicating that it is not there in the original text, but added by the translator. Be careful, huh?
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Re: The Platform Sutra

Postby White Lotus » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:30 pm

Venerable Hui Feng,

I recommend AGAINST using the translation of the text which renders "zi xing" as "essence of mind".


I wonder what a more accurate translation of "zi xing" might be. it strikes me that Tathata is the essence or superlative expression of mind, but i do not presume that this is correct. i am not a teacher.

Note, too, that in the translation used above, the word "[suchness]" is in the [...], indicating that it is not there in the original text, but added by the translator.


if the old Master were not transmitting Suchness, what was he transmitting? what is zi xing. surely he was transmitting the obvious, and if this is the case, he was not transmitting and there was no transmission to transmit? if it was right before Hui nengs nose, then why was the shawl used. everyone knows it.

there is no difficult and easy, people only complicate the obvious, 'This' is easy. ask a seven year old child and he will confound Bodhidharma. Bodhidharma learnt from a seven day old baby. he "did not know", but he certainly saw, heard and tasted.

love White Lotus. x

What is there to be careful of? if i am transgressive of the truth, then i need to be careful. but what truth is there? its all in the 'huh?'!

huh? so?! so.

no carefullness, then no carelessness.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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