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 Post subject: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:25 pm 
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So is there sex in pureland? Like pure sex?


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:30 pm 
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Well, Pure - Sex could help you to get there.


Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Sex in the sense of sexuality, or sex in the sense of sex differentiation (male v female)?

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Lhug-Pa wrote:
I don't know, but Pure Sex could help you to get there.


The link you provided concerning Amitabha is gibberish.

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Jikan wrote:
Sex in the sense of sexuality, or sex in the sense of sex differentiation (male v female)?


Yes, further clarification by the OP is needed.

This previous thread may help:

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4583&start=0#p47248

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:42 am 
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are you kidding? either way is no. as in no male or female.
as the level of heavens go higher, sexual desire will decrease, same like when a person gets older. even a hand shake or just looking is good for them(desire realms). then later you only like nature, river, sea, moutains or art(form realms).


shurangama sutra:-
Quote:
The Buddha told Ananda, "You constantly hear me explain in the Vinaya that there are three decisive aspects to cultivation. That is, collecting one's thoughts constitutes the precepts; from the precepts comes Samadhi; and from Samadhi arises wisdom. These are called the Three Non-Outflow Studies. "

"Ananda, why do I call collecting one's thoughts the precepts? If beings in the six paths of any mundane world had no sexual desire, they would not have to undergo a continual succession of births and deaths. Your basic purpose in cultivating Samadhi is to transcend the wearisome defilements. But if you do not renounce sexual desire, you will not be able to get out of the dust. Even though people may have some wisdom and the manifestation of Dhyana Samadhi, if they do not exterminate sexual desire, they are certain to enter demonic paths. At best, they will become demon kings; on the average, they will become members of the retinue of demons; at the lowest level, they will become female demons. These demons all have their groups of disciples. Each claims that he has accomplished the Unsurpassed Way. After my Nirvana, in the Dharma-ending Age, these hordes of demons will abound, spreading like wildfire as they openly practice greed and lust, while claiming to be Good Knowing Advisors. They will cause beings to fall into the pit of love and views and lose the way to Bodhi."

"When you teach people of the world to cultivate Samadhi, they must first of all cut off the mind of sexual desire. This is the first clear and decisive instruction on purity given by the Tathagatas, the Buddhas of the past, the Bhagavans. Therefore, Ananda, if cultivators of Dhyana Samadhi do not exterminate sexual desire, they are like someone who cooks sand hoping to get rice. After hundreds of thousands of eons, it will still just be hot sand. Why? It wasn't rice to begin with; it was only sand. If you seek the Buddha's wonderful fruition with a body of sexual desire, then even if you attain a wonderful awakening, it is still based on sexual desire. With sexual desire at the source, you will revolve in the three paths and not be able to get out. Which road will you take to cultivate and be certified to the Tathagata's Nirvana? You must exterminate the sexual desire which is intrinsic to both body and mind, then get rid of even the aspect of extermination. At that point you have some hope of attaining the Buddha's Bodhi. What I have said here is the Buddhas' teaching. Any explanation counter to it is the teaching of Papiyan(demon king)."

http://www.e-sangha.com/alphone/shurangama.html#5

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:06 am 
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Are most Pure Land practitioners celibate or striving for celibacy? Just wondering (seeing as the sutra excerpt above suggests that practically nothing can be accomplished without it...or, even worse, one will end up on the path of demons).

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:18 am 
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Jikan wrote:
Sex in the sense of sexuality, or sex in the sense of sex differentiation (male v female)?


Yes like that.

Anyway, I was just curious, it was meant as a tounge in cheek question. Although I really am curious. I suppose it wouldn't matter at that point, but a few fit birds wouldn't hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Lazy_eye wrote:
Are most Pure Land practitioners celibate or striving for celibacy? Just wondering (seeing as the sutra excerpt above suggests that practically nothing can be accomplished without it...or, even worse, one will end up on the path of demons).


Well, imo if its not in Amitabha's Vows then it is not a requirement. Other than Chinese Buddhist monks , I believe the answer to that would be no.


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:52 pm 
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sinweiy wrote:
are you kidding? either way is no. as in no male or female.


I agree, but it's not that cut and dry:

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4583&start=0

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:25 pm 
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AlexanderS wrote:
...but a few fit birds wouldn't hurt.

Um, er Image like these?

ImageImageImage

Image

Regards


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Tara wrote:
AlexanderS wrote:
...but a few fit birds wouldn't hurt.

Um, er Image like these?Regards



Corrrr...but this one's even fitter:


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Yes, right fit birds.

Quote:
Again, Sariputra, in that land there are always many kinds of rare and beautiful birds of various colors, such as white geese, peacocks, parrots, saris, kalavinkas, and jivamjivakas. Six times during the day and night birds sing with melodious and delicate sounds, which proclaim the teachings as the five roots of good, the five powers, the seven practices leading to enlightenment, and the Noble Eightfold Path. On hearing them, all the people of that land become mindful of the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. But, Sariputra, you should not assume that these birds are born as retribution for evil karma. The reson is that none of the three evil realms exists in that Buddha land. Sariputra, even the names of the three evil realms do not exist there; how much less the realms themselves! These birds are manifested by Amitayus so that their singing can proclaim and spread the Dharma.


(from the Smaller Pure Land Sutra)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox9IUeNWWh0

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:38 pm 
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In England we sometimes call girls or young women birds. And fit sometimes mean athletic or otherwise good looking naked conforming to modern standards.


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:46 pm 
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AlexanderS wrote:
In England we sometimes call girls or young women birds. And fit sometimes mean athletic or otherwise good looking naked conforming to modern standards.


Thanks for that.
I often miss the nuances on these threads
:smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:42 pm 
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AlexanderS wrote:
In England we sometimes call girls or young women birds. And fit sometimes mean athletic or otherwise good looking naked conforming to modern standards.


Yes, of course, as in "Norwegian Wood." I'd assumed the bird-related commentary was made punningly.

Fit means fit the stateside too.

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:23 pm 
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AlexanderS wrote:
Anyway, I was just curious, it was meant as a tounge in cheek question. Although I really am curious. I suppose it wouldn't matter at that point, but a few fit birds wouldn't hurt.
You make all that effort to get to Dewachen and the only thing that concerns you is the possibility that, maybe, when you get there you won't be able to get laid???
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Just me I'm sure....but if I had to have sex in that place, what would be the point?

What would it be that would want to have that and what would want to also have that, if it is assuemed to be with partner?
It would imply a lacking or wanting since on such basis is sex formed conceptually.
We may use it for spiritual purpose as humans but always is some wanting the inception of that thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:33 am 
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Lazy_eye wrote:
Are most Pure Land practitioners celibate or striving for celibacy? Just wondering (seeing as the sutra excerpt above suggests that practically nothing can be accomplished without it...or, even worse, one will end up on the path of demons).


house-holders, who are married couples can still abide by non-sexual misconduct of the 5 precepts.
not necessary need to celibacy. but it's still a good idea to be less attached to it. have in mind that such happiness are temporary, never lasting and only lead to suffering. eventually when one reached PL, Amitahba will teach you how to do it.

Quote:
You must exterminate the sexual desire which is intrinsic to both body and mind, then get rid of even the aspect of extermination. - shurangama sutra


the second verse is to rid the attachment totally. detachment of detachment = attachment?. woah, very advance. like Vajrayana's tantra practice. attached without attachment. doing it without any desire. ordinally people will only do it with lust/desire/attachment. like a cloth dip into a container of dye, but not getting the cloth colored.
the body can be dirty, but the mind is still pure and clean. not many people can do that. eventually, you will be taught to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sex in pureland?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:38 am 
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AlexanderS wrote:
Jikan wrote:
Sex in the sense of sexuality, or sex in the sense of sex differentiation (male v female)?


Yes like that.

Anyway, I was just curious, it was meant as a tounge in cheek question. Although I really am curious. I suppose it wouldn't matter at that point, but a few fit birds wouldn't hurt.


If you're only interested in sensual pleasures in the afterlife then maybe you can look into Islam? Your stay there will be temporary but nevertheless you'll have a large company of "fit birds"


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