Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Josef » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:31 am

Heruka wrote:saying in public...

hey im a man..look at what i do..,

sticking it out there for all to see, only to get it caught in your zipper....


lol

you dzogchenpas crack me up.

I know right.
Actually sharing with others in an attempt to help them out, share experiences, and reassure is so laughable.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby heart » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:54 am

Heruka wrote:saying in public...

hey im a man..look at what i do..,

sticking it out there for all to see, only to get it caught in your zipper....


lol

you dzogchenpas crack me up.


For us that was young in the seventies, when underwear was considered optional because of the tightness of the jeans, I can assure you that "caught in the zipper" is something very very painful. :smile:

/magnus
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Virgo » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:29 am

As far as Semdzins go, I would like to paraphrase Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche in his book Dzogchen teachings, from pages 93-99.

Basically he explains and says that Trechod is impossible without having prior knowledge of our condition.

Let me say that again: Impossible. That means no real presence. Now sure we can awaken knowledge through our practices of presence and so forth, but there is doubt if there is no knowledge. Then our practice isn't coordination of our body, speech, and mind with this knowledge but too much effort, usually.

In these few pages ChNNR doesn't actually mention Semdzins. Nevertheless, the express purpose of Semdzins is to discover this knowledge.

Now my take is that whether we have knowledge or not, if it is not very stable, then we can more easily affirm or reaffirm our knowledge through Semdzins. Or if we don't have knowledge, we can gain it through Semdzins.

This only helps our practice of presence.

Knowledge is key. It's just like anything else. Save here it is not so much intellectual. Though of course we need intellectual knowledge of the things taught to us as well.

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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Kelwin » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:32 am

heart wrote:
Heruka wrote:saying in public...

hey im a man..look at what i do..,

sticking it out there for all to see, only to get it caught in your zipper....


lol

you dzogchenpas crack me up.


For us that was young in the seventies, when underwear was considered optional because of the tightness of the jeans, I can assure you that "caught in the zipper" is something very very painful. :smile:

/magnus

Heruka, you have a point of course, I hope my post did not bother you. Experiences in practice are certainly not for public debate.

What really disturbs me though, is the image I now have in mind of Magnus in seventies jeans. I'll need some pictures to believe that my friend :applause:
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby padma norbu » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:18 am

Nangwa wrote:
Heruka wrote:saying in public...

hey im a man..look at what i do..,

sticking it out there for all to see, only to get it caught in your zipper....


lol

you dzogchenpas crack me up.

I know right.
Actually sharing with others in an attempt to help them out, share experiences, and reassure is so laughable.


Uh, depends on the intention.

Quite easy to act the part and fool yourself and others into thinking you're awesome regardless of whether or not you remain quiet. In fact, keeping quiet is potentially easier: you get to act superior without saying a word, except maybe a few choice ones like above.

So far, all the once-secret practices I have learned came from another person in a fairly public setting. It's pretty obvious why talking about experiences can throw us off course of pure intention, but it's also pretty obvious someone somewhere was talking, unless all the stories and texts are a bunch of tall tales.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Josef » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:24 am

padma norbu wrote:
Nangwa wrote:
Heruka wrote:saying in public...

hey im a man..look at what i do..,

sticking it out there for all to see, only to get it caught in your zipper....


lol

you dzogchenpas crack me up.

I know right.
Actually sharing with others in an attempt to help them out, share experiences, and reassure is so laughable.


Uh, depends on the intention.


I listed some intentions.
My post was sarcastic.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby padma norbu » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:28 am

I was referring to Heruka's post, I believe, and I was not actually pointing the figure at anyone. Just making a comment about silence vs. well-intentioned sharing w/o breaking samaya, of course. I appreciated what you had to say. Thanks for sharing it. :smile:
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:24 am

Since I'm not desrcibing any details about the practice here, is it okay to ask if there is much point in doing the Purification of the Six Lokas practice throughout the day while engaged in ordinary activity, as opposed to doing it retreat style at home? That is if we can maintain awareness in doing this of course....

Also, is it alright to skip the Outer Rushen that comes before the Inner Purification of the Six Lokas, and still achieve the fruition of the latter?
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby mint » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:05 am

What are the six lokas?
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:41 am

'The Six-Lokas': Hell, Preta, Animal, Human, Asura, and Sura realms of samsara.

There are other Lokas too though.

Don't know what else can be said here on a open forum regarding their relation to the Purification of the Six Lokas Rushen though.

If you have your Dzogchen Community info yet, there might be a Webcast replay about it.

Speaking of which would maybe answer my question....
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Pero » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:12 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:Since I'm not desrcibing any details about the practice here, is it okay to ask if there is much point in doing the Purification of the Six Lokas practice throughout the day while engaged in ordinary activity, as opposed to doing it retreat style at home?

Not much.

Also, is it alright to skip the Outer Rushen that comes before the Inner Purification of the Six Lokas, and still achieve the fruition of the latter?

Yes.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:10 pm

Thanks Pero

In Heart Drops of Dharmakaya it is written that the Rushen preliminaries can be practiced while maintaining ordinary daily life.

However, since reciting the Mantras while actually engaged in the specific tasks of ordinary daily life would apparently be fruitless, then sitting down and dedicating a couple hours each day to the practice and spreading it over say three to six months, is the only option for right now.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Pero » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:32 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:In Heart Drops of Dharmakaya it is written that the Rushen preliminaries can be practiced while maintaining ordinary daily life.

I doubt that was supposed to mean you can do rushen while doing the dishes or shopping for groceries etc. :smile:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:38 pm

Right, I understand that. I should have been more clear in conveying that I meant that we don't necessarily have to go on vacation or retire and go on an all out retreat. As I'm sure you already know anyway. :smile:
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Pero » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:41 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Right, I understand that. I should have been more clear in conveying that I meant that we don't necessarily have to go on vacation or retire to go on an all out retreat. As I'm sure you already know anyway. :smile:

But an all out retreat in seclusion is IMO much better.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:48 pm

Would love to go on such a retreat.

As we've heard so many times from Rinpoche though, we have to work with circumstances. :juggling:
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Pero » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:50 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Would love to go on such a retreat.

As we've heard so many times from Rinpoche though, we have to work with circumstances. :juggling:

Yes certainly.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Lhug-Pa » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:45 pm

Do all of the explanations of the practices in The Precious Vase contain complete instructions?

For example in The Precious Vase the explanation of the Rushen of the Six Lokas is quite simple compared to the one given in the Bonpo instructions found in Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche's and Jean Luc-Achard's book; and also, the Lung that Rinpoche gave today for a Terma Six Lokas practice, had some Mantras that aren't in The Precious Vase version of the Six Lokas practice.

But I'm wondering if the Six Lokas practice as presented in The Precious Vase is still complete in itself.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:04 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Do all of the explanations of the practices in The Precious Vase contain complete instructions?

...

But I'm wondering if the Six Lokas practice as presented in The Precious Vase is still complete in itself.


As for one, you can always find more instructions.

And for two, yes.
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Re: Lojongs, Rushens, and Semdzins

Postby Fa Dao » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:32 pm

After reading through the Precious Vase, specifically the sections on the Lojongs, Rushens and Semdzins, I found the book of the same name to be very helpful in clarifying a few points that I was unsure about.
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