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So really, what's the difference? - Dhamma Wheel

So really, what's the difference?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Mukunda
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So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:14 pm

I am not in any way in favor of whaling. But is it [b]really[b] any worse than this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 833909134#

and if so, why?

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Goofaholix
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:12 am


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Sobeh
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Sobeh » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:20 am

The moral argument is similar in both cases, but the environmental argument differs in that whales are more endangered than factory farm animals. It isn't a matter of debating necessary meat consumption, but rather one of species preservation.

Mukunda
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:29 am


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Sobeh
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Sobeh » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:58 am

You are confusing a secondary/tertiary/etc effect as bracketed by the phrase "environmental problems that threaten all species with extinction" with a primary effect such as hunting an endangered species. It's a matter of degree; while both are ethically problematic, the threat to a particular species is more immanent in the case of whale hunting, and the solution a lot simpler (by way of fewer variables).

Mukunda
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:12 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:13 am


Mukunda
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:16 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:27 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:31 am


Mukunda
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:22 am


Mukunda
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:29 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:52 am


chownah
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby chownah » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:28 pm

On another Buddhist forum there was a discussion of which animals were worse to kill than others from the strict Theravadan perspective....i.e. only Theravadan texts were accepted as being appropriate...and....if my memory is correct the answer was that the bigger the animal the worse the fruits of kamma for its killing......evidentally the Buddha taught that size in fact DOES matter.......so.....evidentally killing whales is alot worse than killing chickens...or cows....or even elephants.....etc......and I guess that killing baby whales would be better than killing adults but I don't really know.....
chownah

Mukunda
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Mukunda » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:35 pm


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David N. Snyder
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:37 pm

Image




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Wind
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Wind » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:22 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:26 pm


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Wind
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Wind » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:45 pm


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Goofaholix
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Re: So really, what's the difference?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:51 pm

It isn't possible to till soil without killing the animals that live in the soil, and taking away habitat and resources from animals that would have lived on that land.

I doubt it's possible to grow crops without killing insects, rodents, birds, and other animals that will try to eat those crops before they get to your table.

If vegetarians think it's ok to kill these animals but not larger animals that are used for their meat then we've already established a hierarchy.

If that's the case I don't think it's unreasonable to put whales at the top of that hierarchy.

Whatever you do to survive you are going to be indirectly involved in killing, this is just part of the suffering inherent in life. As I understand it the Buddha knew that which is why he was more concerned about his disciples not being directly involved as well.


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