If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby catmoon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:50 am

White Lotus wrote:
page 98. [37] "Nowhere did the Tathagata stand because his mind sought no support".


To stand in "dharmas are empty" is to "not stand in prajnaparamita".


one does not take ones stand anywhere, even in emptiness? free to come and go, to accept or reject?

best wishes, White Lotus. :shock:



Actually, if you examine the logic closely, there is no conflict between what you and Ven. Huifeng and the sutra are saying. Unless Huifeng was was saying we should stand in the prajnaparamita...

Basically "standing in" makes a poor metaphor, as it implies taking up a position, owning and defending it. One might ask, how do you stand in emptiness? Where is it, and what stands there?
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby Huifeng » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:48 am

White Lotus wrote:
page 98. [37] "Nowhere did the Tathagata stand because his mind sought no support".


To stand in "dharmas are empty" is to "not stand in prajnaparamita".


one does not take ones stand anywhere, even in emptiness? free to come and go, to accept or reject?

best wishes, White Lotus. :shock:


"accept" and "reject" is pretty much precisely what is meant by "stand" in the above passages.
The sutra indicates that "suchness neither comes nor goes".
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby White Lotus » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:19 pm

Venerable Hui Feng...
isnt accepting and rejecting taking a No stand, since there is no one to accept nor to reject, and only the appearance of accepting and rejecting. this accords with freedom. the same applies to coming and going. even to be averse to the words accept and reject is to take a stand, the same applies to coming and going.

when the monk comes to take his breakfast, is this not perfectly in accord with suchness, just as it is. just so. how could he not be perfectly in accord with suchness.

there is no difference between the Buddha and a grain of sand.

best wishes, White Lotus. x (i will try not to use smileys, they are ambiguous.)
Last edited by White Lotus on Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:05 pm

Hi White Lotus,

I'm sure you wouldn't intend any disrespect towards Venerable. In American culture at least, rolling your eyes at someone is definitely not very respectful, it's sort of sarcastic. I never have liked that smiley!

I'm just letting you know because it seems that you're appreciating the direct responses he's providing.

Kind wishes,
Laura
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby White Lotus » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:19 pm

thanks Laura, no intended disrespect to Venerable Hui Feng. smiley removed. until your advice i had never thought how significant a smiley can be.
best wishes, White Lotus.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby catmoon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:08 pm

I think you underestimate this monk. Our much-beloved rice sack is not without a sense of humour!
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:12 am

White Lotus wrote:thanks Laura, no intended disrespect to Venerable Hui Feng. smiley removed. until your advice i had never thought how significant a smiley can be.
best wishes, White Lotus.


:namaste:
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby White Lotus » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:37 pm

one must be careful not to talk about the old rice sack too disrespectfully, there may not be enough to go round. but... thank heavens for a sense of humour. nonetheless walking the path of dharma is like crossing an icy stream, one must be careful.

Venerable Hui-Feng, i am studying the "Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana" in order to be more in accord with an orthodox expression of 'Tathata'.

with love, White Lotus. x

what is nobility? revered or not... empty.
what is humility? abased and ordinary... empty.
all is special, all is just as it is. just so. so.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby White Lotus » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:16 pm

Dear Laura, thank you for your wisdom, humour tends to loose its root. your lotus avatar is beautiful. i should try to find one for myself! ps. are you going to further develop work on the Platform Sutra in the Sutra studies section? I would like to offer my nut, if its worth anything.

love, White Lotus. x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:18 pm

White Lotus wrote:Dear Laura, thank you for your wisdom, humour tends to loose its root. your lotus avatar is beautiful. i should try to find one for myself! ps. are you going to further develop work on the Platform Sutra in the Sutra studies section? I would like to offer my nut, if its worth anything.

love, White Lotus. x


Hi White Lotus,

You're most welcome. Sometimes on the Internet words and graphics don't come across the way they were necessarily intended.

Thank you for the compliment about the avie. I like reflecting lotuses too :)

I recently bumped the Platform Sutra thread to the top of the topic list hoping that it might incite some new interest, but the study may not take off. In my experience dharma studies are a little challenging to get off the ground in a forum environment. I would very much like to learn more about the sutra, so hopefully those who are interested will take note and give it some attention.

Kind wishes,
Laura
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Re: If I am enlightened, everybody are enlightened?

Postby White Lotus » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:14 pm

thanks Laura, i will read through the Patform Sutra and take note of aspects i find interesting. i must also read the thread carefully.
best wishes, White Lotus. x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
White Lotus
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

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