The Bodhisattva Vows

[shel]

Hello All,

I'm curious about the Bodhisattva vows and what they might mean to serious practitioners who make these vows. People who've taken the precepts, refuge, or just recite them regularly.

I've had a recent experience that leads me to believe that many "serious" practitioners may not actually take these vows very seriously. That is they readily abandon them when they become too challenging. Granted they are "impossible" vows, never the less does it not disparage the Buddhadhamma to make such vows and subsequently not try so hard to live up to them?

Please share any thoughts you might have on the subject, thanks.

[Huifeng]

Hello All,

I'm curious about the Bodhisattva vows and what they might mean to serious practitioners who make these vows. People who've taken the precepts, refuge, or just recite them regularly.

I've had a recent experience that leads me to believe that many "serious" practitioners may not actually take these vows very seriously. That is they readily abandon them when they become too challenging. Granted they are "impossible" vows, never the less does it not disparage the Buddhadhamma to make such vows and subsequently not try so hard to live up to them?

Please share any thoughts you might have on the subject, thanks.

Personally, I take them very seriously. In particular though, the very basic vow of bodhicitta, which is "Do not abandon sentient beings." Sometimes that is not easy. Sometimes to help others, it appears that we ourselves will lose out. That is where understanding of emptiness, not self, comes in. Many may make these vows, but of those who make them, the number who can carry them through to the end and actually reach full awakening is a tiny minority. However, others' faults, or rather perceived faults, are not mine to criticize. By strengthening my own bodhicitta I find that I become more and more surrounded by those who also have this aspiration. This is why a good guide, a compassionate teacher well trained in bodhicitta, is an almost essential raft in this ocean of becoming.

[shel]

Hello Huifeng,

Thank you for your thoughts.

By strengthening my own bodhicitta I find that I become more and more surrounded by those who also have this aspiration.

Yes, that make sense.

[Ngawang Drolma]

I'm a practitioner so I hope that qualifies me to answer
I do take vows seriously.

Best,
Laura

[KeithBC]

A lama teaching recently at my local centre pointed out a fundamental difference between Buddhist morality and the moral codes of other religions: whereas other religions tend to hold their codes of conduct as standards to be adhered to, Buddhist codes of conduct are goals to aim towards.

So I know that I do not live up to the Bodhisattva vows. I do take them seriously as a goal. It is my intention to live up to them, and I make efforts towards that end. I don't beat myself up about it when I don't succeed, just as I don't get mad at myself if my mind wanders during meditation. Surely others are in a similar position, and there is no point in getting upset at them either.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

[Indrajala]

Hello All,

I'm curious about the Bodhisattva vows and what they might mean to serious practitioners who make these vows. People who've taken the precepts, refuge, or just recite them regularly.

I've had a recent experience that leads me to believe that many "serious" practitioners may not actually take these vows very seriously. That is they readily abandon them when they become too challenging. Granted they are "impossible" vows, never the less does it not disparage the Buddhadhamma to make such vows and subsequently not try so hard to live up to them?

Please share any thoughts you might have on the subject, thanks.

I think the hardest part of maintaining the will to fulfil your Bodhisattva vows is the self-cherishing inclinations that exist in most of us -- this mistaken view that I am an individual self-existent entity that is separate from everyone else: my suffering, my nirvana, my samsara, my need to be free, my desires, my happiness.

It is said that emptiness is the cradle of compassion. When cracks appear in the seemingly axiomatic notions of me and mine, the infinite expanse of Indra's net which encompasses all sentient beings becomes visible. Indra's net is a metaphor for reality that is commonly utilized in Huayan thought. At each intersection of cord there is a gem and in that gem all other gems are reflected in it. If you should place a mark on it, it will appear in all other gems' reflections. When the defilements are cleared off one's own gem, the whole of reality becomes all that much brighter. When the other gems are made clear, so too does it benefit the individual. The well-being of all beings is ultimately interconnected to one's own.

In my humble estimation, compassion is only possible when there is some degree of wisdom. It isn't enough to just recite, "May all beings without exception be liberated from suffering and its causes." Thus the need for study, reflection, contemplation and learning.

Also keep in mind that while some fools like me may not live up to the Bodhisattva ideal in this life, if the seeds are at least planted, then in some future life perhaps the ideal can be truly realized. I might give up at some point when the going gets rough, but as they say:

Sometimes you gotta step back a few feet before taking one giant leap.

[plwk]

When we talk of the Bodhisattva Vows/Precepts, is it the one in the The Mahayana Brahma Net Sutra or do we have other sources for this, as I have read once upon a time in a defunct forum and also encountered in real time, in one short conversation (which was limited by time) with a certain Bhikshuni recently on their organisation's conferment and practice of the Bodhisattva Precepts, that their source is not the Brahma Net Sutra but another known as 'Bodhisattva Sila' something. (Hope to follow up on that conversation some other time for more details)

So far personally, I haven't had the affinity to take up this yet as I find upholding and adhering the basic 5 Lay Precepts & 10 Good Deeds and taking up 8 Precepts on special Upavasatha Days, already an enormous task. And throughout my years with certain places, some have made it so 'mystical' and 'super lofty' that as if the common Laity is not even suppose to hear it, even to say receive it as if its the Vinaya. But thanks to association with still more others, I have been educated that it's not true.

I read an interesting Sutra booklet front page comment of Elder Great Master Yen Pei to a lay Upasika:

Brahma Net Sutra: Moral Code of the Bodhisattvas (Sutra Translation Committee of the United States and Canada)
"After I informed the Assembly of my intention to lecture on the Brahma Net Sutra, a lay woman asked,
"Master, I have not yet received the Bodhisattva Precepts. Would you still allow me to attend the lectures and listen to your explanations?"
I replied: 'Of course, by all means. If I were lecturing on the Bhikshu/Bhikshuni Precepts, you would not be permitted to attend, even if you requested it with utmost sincerity. However, as far as the Bodhisattva Precepts are concerned, I hope that you and all your friends can come and listen; the more people, the better.
Listening to the Bodhisattva Precepts not only does not violate the rules of disciple, it in fact helps us awaken the Bodhi Mind and develop the Precepts of the Buddha Nature, inherent in all of us'"

...that many "serious" practitioners may not actually take these vows very seriously. That is they readily abandon them when they become too challenging. Granted they are "impossible" vows, never the less does it not disparage the Buddhadhamma to make such vows and subsequently not try so hard to live up to them?

I look at it this way: I try to see what can I learn from them and improve my own and encourage/exhort them in their practice of the Bodhisattva Precepts. That's all that I can do within my limited means without forming ideas about what others do or don't. Better for me to spend the same time and energy to focus on my own self reflection.

I recall reading this story...

http://www.ymba.org/parable/parabfr3.htm
PARABLE 061:THE BRAHMA NET SUTRA
According to tradition, around the time that Bodhidharma arrived in China (6th century), the Indian Master Paramartha, who was residing in China, heard of the existence of a text that taught the moral code of the Bodhisattvas. He immediately returned to India and succeeded in acquiring the entire Brahma Net Sutra -- all 61 chapters, comprised of 120 fascicles.
However, as Paramartha was sailing toward China with his treasure, a sudden storm arose and his ship began to sink. Piece by piece, all baggage was thrown overboard, but to no avail.
Finally, Paramartha had no choice but to let go of the Brahma Net Sutra -- after which the ship miraculously righted itself. Paramartha then realized the sad truth: the people of the "Eastern Kingdom" (China) were not yet ready for the Brahma Net Sutra.
Note: The Brahma Net Sutra expounds the precepts of the Bodhisattvas, those higher beings who seek Enlightenment for all.

[Huifeng]

East Asian Buddhism has moved back and forth between using the Mahayana Brahmajala Sutra and the Bodhisattva-sila from the Yogacarabhumi a number of times. They are very similar, though. At my own ordination, we used the Brahmajala for the actual precepts, but one of the acaryas used the Yogacarabhumi at one point. He made note of the correspondence between the two, it wasn't just slap-dash.

[Indrajala]

When we talk of the Bodhisattva Vows/Precepts, is it the one in the The Mahayana Brahma Net Sutra or do we have other sources for this, as I have read once upon a time in a defunct forum and also encountered in real time, in one short conversation (which was limited by time) with a certain Bhikshuni recently on their organisation's conferment and practice of the Bodhisattva Precepts, that their source is not the Brahma Net Sutra but another known as 'Bodhisattva Sila' something. (Hope to follow up on that conversation some other time for more details)

In East Asia there are several sets of Bodhisattva precepts. There is of course the Brahma Net Sutra set which is now most common, but there is also the Sūtra of Stages of the Bodhisattva Path (菩薩地持經) and the Sūtra of the Bodhisattva's Virtuous Precepts (菩薩善戒經). It would be my guess that the "Bodhisattva-sila" you mention corresponds to the later just judging from the title. Tibetans use their own translation of the Bodhisattvabhumi which was composed by Maitreya and transmitted through Asanga.

While there are variations, the essence of the vows is summarized as the Threefold Pure Precepts (三聚淨戒):

1. Observing all precepts (攝律儀戒).
2. Practising all good dharmas [kusala-dharma] (攝善法戒).
3. Compassion for all sentient beings (攝衆生戒).

The first two are for self-improvement (自利) while the third is for the benefit of others (利他).

Also, as the sutra states the Bodhisattva precepts have one hundred thousand varieties and differences.

《攝大乘論釋》卷11〈6 釋依戒學勝相品〉：「毘那耶瞿沙毘佛略經中廣說菩薩戒有十萬種差別。」(CBETA, T31, no. 1595, p. 234, b6-8)

[plwk]

Many thanks to Ven Huifeng and Huseng for your kind replies and clarifications

[shel]

I'm a practitioner so I hope that qualifies me to answer
I do take vows seriously.

Best,
Laura

Hi Laura,

I didn't mean to sound exclusionary in any way. I'm interested in any thought on the subject, from serious practitioners or otherwise.

[shel]

the Bodhisattva precepts have one hundred thousand varieties and differences.

Maybe enough to sink a small ship!

[shel]

Many thanks to Ven Huifeng and Huseng for your kind replies and clarifications

Yes, and thanks to you as well, Plwk.

[shel]

A lama teaching recently at my local centre pointed out a fundamental difference between Buddhist morality and the moral codes of other religions: whereas other religions tend to hold their codes of conduct as standards to be adhered to, Buddhist codes of conduct are goals to aim towards.

So I know that I do not live up to the Bodhisattva vows. I do take them seriously as a goal. It is my intention to live up to them, and I make efforts towards that end. I don't beat myself up about it when I don't succeed, just as I don't get mad at myself if my mind wanders during meditation. Surely others are in a similar position, and there is no point in getting upset at them either.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

Hi Keith,

Not so much a matter of upset in my opinion, although I imagine that no one likes to see a loss of value in something that they themselves value, as it is of the apparent value or worth of the Buddhadhamma. Simply put, and to put it positively, if everyone who practiced Buddhism and made the vows lived up to their vows the Boddhadhamma would generally be perceived to have great value.

[Will]

Before the vows there needs to be preparation, for lifetimes. Here is a sample from Vasubandhu Bodhisattva's work on the vows, their causes & conditions.

http://www.kalavinka.com/Jewels/book_ex ... 1_X-01.pdf

[LastLegend]

The vows mean you work hard on your part with diligence to achieve enlightenment, then you can help other sentient beings. While you are still deluded, you will lead other sentient beings deluded also. Buddha taught after enlightenment.