Diamond Sutra in latin

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Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Aemilius » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:37 pm

Please enjoy:
Diamond Sutra in latin http://www.pitaka.ch/orsafulguralia.pdf

Here we have Heart Sutra in a latin translationhttp://www.pitaka.ch/orsacordis.pdf
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Astus » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:51 pm

Very nice. :popcorn:
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Dharma Atma » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:38 pm

Someone, explain what's use of it please. :shrug:
I'd understand if the Sutras were translated in, for example, Eskimo languages or so. It would be useful and undoubtedly bring good fruits for people. The action of making Dharma more widespread in the world. But translating in the dead languages... Hmm... As I know we've got less than a zero Latin native speakers.
I do respect the author of the translation. He must be a very intelligent person... But what for?
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby kirtu » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:27 am

Dharma Atma wrote:Hmm... As I know we've got less than a zero Latin native speakers.
I do respect the author of the translation. He must be a very intelligent person... But what for?


There is an interest in Latin with media in Latin for example (Radio Bremen and of course the Vatican). There is a Latin section of Wikipedia for example with thousands of entries. Latin is still apparently taught in Italian schools. Then there might be some very minor Romance language in the wilds of France or the mountains of Spain that is close enough to Latin to make the sutra useful. Perhaps Helvetica (Swiss Swiss) as well?

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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Astus » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:51 am

What is the use of translating the Diamond Sutra at all? The content is too difficult for anyone without prior education to make sense of, so any translation of it should be done with commentary. Not to mention there are dozens of English translations. A Latin version, well, it's fun, that's all.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby catmoon » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:00 pm

Lemesee now... a Latin version of a Buddhist sutra being plugged on an English language board. I wonder what your demographics look like?


(tapitty tapitty tick tap tap)

Hm, according to Google, your entire demographic consists a certain Ashok Flavius Witherspoon from Willingston, England. Oh wait here's a photo:




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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Dharma Atma » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:35 pm

kirtu wrote: Then there might be some very minor Romance language in the wilds of France or the mountains of Spain that is close enough to Latin to make the sutra useful. Perhaps Helvetica (Swiss Swiss) as well?

Very funny :twothumbsup:
In realty, Spanish (even in the wildest places where people haven't even heard the very word "civilization") went too far from its Latin progenitor. I don't even wanna speak about French: its evolution ran even faster.
Although Latin is their progenitor but 2,000 years 've done their work. For example, the English can't read English texts even of 13 century, and you want the French to remember Latin... :thumbsup:
kirtu wrote:There is an interest in Latin with media in Latin for example (Radio Bremen and of course the Vatican).

They in Vatican will read the Sutra with pleasure :smile:
Anyway, it's beside the point. :offtopic:
Astus wrote:What is the use of translating the Diamond Sutra at all?

Strange question. It's very useful to translate Dharma texts. Undoubtedly.
But why to translate them in the dead languages... :shrug:
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby alwayson » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:16 pm

What is the point of reading the Diamond Sutra at all, in any language?

The Perfection of Wisdom Sutras, as a whole, suggest that all things appear as thoughtforms (conceptual constructs).

And the Heart Sutra says that aggregates are dependently originated.

The messages ain't that complex.
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Astus » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:35 pm

Dharma Atma wrote:But why to translate them in the dead languages... :shrug:


Buddhist sutras were translated into literary Chinese, a dead language by that time. Same can be said about Sanskrit. Latin, of course, is not that popular now as those were in their respective cultural spheres. Still, there is some beauty in Latin. Even two volumes of Harry Potter were translated to Latin (and one volume to ancient Greek).
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Kare » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:39 pm

The first translation of the Dhammapada into a Western language was in 1855, when Fausböll translated it into Latin. But at that time Latin was an international language of learning, read and understood by every learned person in the West. Times have changed.

Here is the well-known verse 183 in Latin:

Omnis mali omissio,
boni susceptio,
cogitationis suae lustratio:
hoc est Buddharum praeceptum.

I think it's rather nice ... :anjali:
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Dharma Atma » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:20 pm

Astus wrote:Still, there is some beauty in Latin.

D'accord :smile: Latin's ancient and beautiful language.
Astus wrote:Even two volumes of Harry Potter were translated to Latin (and one volume to ancient Greek).

I noticed that language is a very important part of any masterpiece. For example, I like Tolkien in English (his language's very expressive); Louis Carroll looks more natural and meanwhile fantastic in French (for ex, Alice au pays des merveilles); and according to my feelings Harry Potter's best read in Russian (the mystical atmosphere).
=========================
Anyway back to the thread, when we talk about the Dharma texts we'd better pay attention to their inner sense instead of words and language used. We all understand this.
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Thug4lyfe » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:40 am

It in Latin so da Pope can recite it for the masses!
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby rory » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:01 am

Kare;
I'm a Latin fan and tiro & would love to read the Dhammapada in latin; do you have a link? As for everyone else, Latin until the 18th century was the language of all European intellectuals: Hungarians, Finns, Frenchmen, Russians, Englishmen could all converse with one another. Wittgenstein wrote his treatise in Latin. Latin is making a big comeback & I for one see how useful it would be as an international language.
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Kare » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:23 pm

rory wrote:Kare;
I'm a Latin fan and tiro & would love to read the Dhammapada in latin; do you have a link? As for everyone else, Latin until the 18th century was the language of all European intellectuals: Hungarians, Finns, Frenchmen, Russians, Englishmen could all converse with one another. Wittgenstein wrote his treatise in Latin. Latin is making a big comeback & I for one see how useful it would be as an international language.
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It can be found in the "Thesaurus Literaturae Buddhicae":

https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index ... rary&bid=2

This site, which is administered by Prof. Jens Braarvig at the University of Oslo, contains many Buddhist Texts (mainly Mahayana) in original languages and in translation, so it is an excellent source for serious students.

This link should lead directly to the Dhammapada in Latin:

https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index ... mid=277752
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:56 am

Nice website. :smile:
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby catmoon » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:50 am

Wow. It would appear the Latin/Buddhist demographic is bigger than I would have ever believed.
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby rory » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:27 am

Gratias tibi ago! I love having the Pali, Latin & English side by side. By translating the Dhammapada in Latin Fausboll made it instantly available to educated readers, no matter what their national language....Catmoon, i know but think about it; if you like Latin you probably like philosophy and Buddhism supplies that lack in the West.
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby LadyAnn » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:49 am

Latin is a language, as dead as dead can be. First it killed the Romans, now it's killing me.

... Interesting to see these sutras in Latin, none-the-less!
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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby kirtu » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:21 am

Dharma Atma wrote:Very funny :twothumbsup:
In realty, Spanish (even in the wildest places where people haven't even heard the very word "civilization") went too far from its Latin progenitor. I don't even wanna speak about French: its evolution ran even faster.


Okay it's a stretch but I'm thinking about the late survival of languages like Friulian, Ladin, Occitan and so forth (not that these examples are all that close to Latin either but there might be some Romance/Rhaeto mix hold up in some village somewhere that might be close enough - dialects can be amazing).

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Re: Diamond Sutra in latin

Postby rory » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:53 am

Occitan comes from Provencal, the language of the troubadors, an incredibly rich language that was probably closest to Latin. Back to Latin, only taught in a interesting lively way :twothumbsup:
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