A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

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A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby mint » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:23 pm

Has anyone ever looked at Berzin's meager archive on Dzogchen? How accurate is the information there?

He treats Dzogchen as a teaching quite historically from the perspective of empirical science, describing Dzogchen as a Mahayana system of practice, not as a practice disassociated from Buddhism or any sect/school/religion, and definitely not as something believed to be taught on multiple world systems.

Dzogchen (rdzogs-chen), the great completeness, is a Mahayana system of practice leading to enlightenment and involves a view of reality, way of meditating, and way of behaving (lta-sgom-spyod gsum). It is found earliest in the Nyingma and Bon (pre-Buddhist) traditions.

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... gchen.html

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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby heart » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:37 pm

Dzogchen is a Mahayana Buddhist practice, in this time and place.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby mint » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:56 pm

Did a Buddha initially transmit the Dzogchen teachings?
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby heart » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:29 pm

mint wrote:Did a Buddha initially transmit the Dzogchen teachings?


Your opinion is that Garab Dorje wasn't a Buddhist? What do you base opinion on?

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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Adamantine » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:33 pm

heart wrote:
mint wrote:Did a Buddha initially transmit the Dzogchen teachings?


Your opinion is that Garab Dorje wasn't a Buddhist? What do you base opinion on?

/magnus


maybe he doesn't know Garab Dorje was a "Buddha".

There is often confusion about Samyaksambuddha's who first reveal the Dharma in an age where it has been forgotten-- and the various "Buddhas" that come after.

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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:44 pm

Yeah Garab Dorje, and also Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche, Tapihritsa and Drenpa Namkha.

And I believe that it was Pabongka Rinpoche who said that the Buddha Shakyamuni and Guru Rinpoche (Padmasambhava) are the same Being or 'Mind-Stream'; which is very significant here.

In another thread:

Pema Rigdzin wrote:It is a very common Nyingma notion that Shakyamuni is said to have announced in a sutra that he would reappear in this world at lake Dhanakosha on a lotus, have the name Padmakara, and spread the inner tantras in this world. I can't remember the exact name of the sutra, but it's a Mahayana sutra that I believe contains "nirvana" in its title.


From a Glossary entry:

Gnostic Teachings wrote:"Let us remember Tsong Khapa who reincarnated in Tibet; he was the Buddha Gautama previously." - Samael Aun Weor, Mental Representations. [Although some Buddhist students may dispute this statement, it was echoed some years earlier in Tibet by Je Phabongkhapa, in Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand, who said that Padmasambhava (the founder of the Nyingma school), Je Tsongkhapa, Atisha, and Buddha Gautama Shakyamuni were all one holy being, not four separate mental continuums.

Tsong Khapa reportedly said, "A female companion is the basis of accomplishment of liberation."
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby mint » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:53 pm

Adamantine wrote:maybe he doesn't know Garab Dorje was a "Buddha".


I had an inkling, but not 100%.

Did Garab Dorje learn the Dzogchen teachings from a Buddha in the Sambhogakaya dimension?
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Adamantine » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:06 pm

mint wrote:
Adamantine wrote:maybe he doesn't know Garab Dorje was a "Buddha".


I had an inkling, but not 100%.

Did Garab Dorje learn the Dzogchen teachings from a Buddha in the Sambhogakaya dimension?


Yes, directly from Vajrasattva
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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby alwayson » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:07 pm

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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:15 pm

mint wrote:
Adamantine wrote:maybe he doesn't know Garab Dorje was a "Buddha".


I had an inkling, but not 100%.

Did Garab Dorje learn the Dzogchen teachings from a Buddha in the Sambhogakaya dimension?


Yes, from Vajrasattva. Some accounts have Garab Dorje simply as a nirmanakaya emanation of Vajrasattva, thus not in need of learning anything as "Garab Dorje". Either way, yes, Dzogchen comes from Buddhas, whether in Buddhism or Bon.

But Dzogchen is definitely a Mahayana system, which only means that it is inseparable from the bodhicitta motivation to liberate all beings. Mahayana includes exoteric (sutra) and esoteric (the tantric paths of transformation and self-liberation) aspects. I don't think Berzin comments at all on whether Dzogchen is found on other world systems, though. I've never seen him be anything but entirely respectful of other Buddhist paths, and since important Dzogchen tantras like the Dra Talgyur definitely state that Dzogchen is found elsewhere in the cosmos, I doubt Berzin would dispute that. Especially since Mahayana sutras commonly speaks about Buddhadharma being practiced in countless other world systems as well. Further, Berzin may well practice Dzogchen himself, though I have no idea. The one thing I can say about his discussion of Dzogchen is that it definitely sounds like Dzogchen explained in a way that a Gelug practitioner could relate to. Of course, for a Gelug audience, maybe that's a skillful means.
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby mint » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:21 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Yes, from Vajrasattva. Some accounts have Garab Dorje simply as a nirmanakaya emanation of Vajrasattva, thus not in need of learning anything as "Garab Dorje". Either way, yes, Dzogchen comes from Buddhas, whether in Buddhism or Bon.



Who did Vajrasattva learn Dzogchen from?
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby mint » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:26 pm

alwayson wrote:http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3053&p=32650&hilit=garab+dorje#p32650


I need to read through this. Thanks for linking it!
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:46 pm

mint wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:Yes, from Vajrasattva. Some accounts have Garab Dorje simply as a nirmanakaya emanation of Vajrasattva, thus not in need of learning anything as "Garab Dorje". Either way, yes, Dzogchen comes from Buddhas, whether in Buddhism or Bon.



Who did Vajrasattva learn Dzogchen from?


Vajrasattva is a sambhogakaya aspect of Samantbhadra. If you do a search of the forum, you'll find a detailed explanation by Namdrol of how a Dzogchen tantra says Samantabhadra realized Dzogchen.
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby dzoki » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:09 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:And I believe that it was Pabongka Rinpoche who said that the Buddha Shakyamuni and Guru Rinpoche (Padmasambhava) are the same Being or 'Mind-Stream'; which is very significant here.


I strongly doubt that the likes of Phabongka would have said something like that.
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:19 pm

Hi Dzoki

If anyone has this book on hand (I don't), or for future reference, to see exactly what is written:

Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand somehwere between pages 130 and 160.
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby dzoki » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:59 pm

In any case let´s go back to topic. Regardless of whether Phabongka said that or not, it is said in terma teahcings:

"In sutra, he (the buddha) is Shakyamuni, in tantra he is Padmasambhava."

So this is a point we can both agree on :)
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby pensum » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:48 am

mint wrote:Did a Buddha initially transmit the Dzogchen teachings?



You may find these lineage trees helpful.

Furthermore there are the Twelve Dzogchen Buddhas, which are listed in this table and to whom there is a chapter (pp. 114-120) dedicated in Wellsprings of the Great Perfection, which is a sourcebook on the early lineage of Dzogchen.
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Mr. G » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:20 am

Thread cleaned - off-topic posts have been removed once again.

Please stay on topic.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Lhug-Pa » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:56 am

Berzinarchives wrote:
Method of Meditating

To avoid distraction from sensory cognition, we meditate in total darkness and total silence with three immovables (mi-g.yo-ba gsum):

immovable body - with body straight, hands either in the meditation pose in our laps or lightly resting on the knees,
immovable senses - with eyes neither closed nor wide open, but gazing naturally in front,
immovable mind - not actively thinking, with no thoughts of the past or future, and with no analysis. We just rest in the present moment of awareness, fresh and uncontrived, without being self-conscious about what we are doing. In other words, even if a thought arises, we do not follow it out.


Is the above-mentioned mi-g.yo-ba gsum the same Migyurwa (non-movement) which is the Second Naljor of Semde described in The Crystal by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche?

For beginners, is sitting in total darkness best for formal Four-Naljors-of-Semde sessions?
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Re: A. Berzin's Dzogchen Archive

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:24 am

Any ideas on a more cost-effective way than this to block all sunlight out of a room?

http://www.blackoutez.com/

I guess one could tape black garbage bags over the windows with blue painter's tape, but it would be a pain to everyday, and would have to buy blue tape all the time. Although I guess one could just leave the bags up, and then close the blinds over them in hopes that the blinds would cover the ghettoness of them when one is not doing this kind of meditation.
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