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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:01 pm 
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dzoki wrote:
muni wrote:
Dharma..."western inspiration". What naked nature posses? What the moon posses? Nothing sensational, nothing. Possesive buddhism....

Moon is in water, no moon posses water. Water let come and go moon freely.


Dude, have you smoked pot or something?


If there is clinging it turns in preferences, possesion, sensations, by subject seeing the object giving qualifications and so on. We can be careful by grasping mind its opinions.

The example of moon in water is seen as ultimate in texts only.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:20 pm 
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dzoki wrote:
muni wrote:
Dharma..."western inspiration". What naked nature posses? What the moon posses? Nothing sensational, nothing. Possesive buddhism....

Moon is in water, no moon posses water. Water let come and go moon freely.


Dude, have you smoked pot or something?

:lol:
Sorry, I couldn't resist!

:focus:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:30 pm 
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I will have to take care how I write here. Anyway, the dual Buddhism shouldn't flourish. Therefore the moon example is useful.

for example when we see qualities through long times so and so, through what makes a "person" great, is this for me not Dharma but clinging to outerly and so on. In this I see no inspiration. All of you can be inspiring!

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Last edited by muni on Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:49 pm 
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I still don't see what that has to do with this topic...

Have you heard about the four brahma viharas, especially mudita, empathetic joy? This is rejoicing in the accomplishments of oneself or another person, in the virtue and prosperity of sentient beings.

It has two enemies, one near and the other called the far enemy: the near is exuberance, hypocrisy or affectation and the far enemy is resentment, jealousy and envy.
Give this a good thought as rejoicing in the virtue and prosperity of others is a positive quality that should be developed.
That is more important than worrying about the flourishing of "dual Buddhisms", whatever that might be, and is the right attitude to approach this topic. It's good that there are inspiring practitioners. Since the Buddhadharma traveled to the West, I hope we can find many inspiring practitioners here too.

So, once again, :focus:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:01 pm 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
I still don't see what that has to do with this topic...

Have you heard about the four brahma viharas, especially mudita, empathetic joy? This is rejoicing in the accomplishments of oneself or another person, in the virtue and prosperity of sentient beings.

It has two enemies, one near and the other called the far enemy: the near is exuberance, hypocrisy or affectation and the far enemy is resentment, jealousy and envy.
Give this a good thought as rejoicing in the virtue and prosperity of others is a positive quality that should be developed.
That is more important than worrying about the flourishing of "dual Buddhisms", whatever that might be, and is the right attitude to approach this topic. It's good that there are inspiring practitioners. Since the Buddhadharma traveled to the West, I hope we can find many inspiring practitioners here too.

So, once again, :focus:


I add what I mean. Me is thaught by preferences, minds' clinging is only cheating ourselves.
The clinging to posts is a problem. Is it that what you mean? Then agree! "The clinging", not the phenomena, object! Then I see no qualities in worldly fame. Inspiration has no nationality.
What about dual buddhism, very sad indeed, it has no importance. Listen no need to sell rightenesses but just point to how me is told, genuine spiritual friends must not be seen through own ideas when we seek inspirations or connect with honest spiritual ones. Not to see all the wrong ones who need a lesson and the good ones who get my smile, as this is not buddhism for me. That is why I reacted here right now.

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There is only nature and all is nature. Any discrimination is ones’ own delusion.


Last edited by muni on Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
dumbbombu wrote:
Kevin Solway.

This is :offtopic: .
If you read carefully, we are talking about Western inspiring practitioners.

Kevin Solway is, obviously, a full fledged Buddha. So you can't count him in. He would make everyone else pale in comparison!Image


sorry, my bad!

Mr. G wrote:
mint wrote:
He also seems to have practiced Zen meditation based on some of his diaries. His later books are like reading Christian-ized Sukuki.


Yes, I think his his take on Zen and Buddhism is influenced by his background.


not just Zen, but Therevada and Dzogchen too if I'm not mistaken. "Merton and Buddhism" is a very good book, if you're interested.

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All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith

oroka


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Quote:
Dude, have you smoked pot or something?

Lol. It may sometimes seem that way, but I have been watching Muni for a long time, and he does occasionally throw the most amazing Dharma thunderbolts. The ones that are aimed at others, I suppose, seem nonsensical to everyone else, but if you ever find yourself on the receiving end of one, the experience is the spiritual equivalent of being hit by a truck. He must have some background in Zen...

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Last edited by catmoon on Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote inserted


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:12 am 
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catmoon wrote:
Quote:
Dude, have you smoked pot or something?

Lol. It may sometimes seem that way, but I have been watching Muni for a long time, and he does occasionally throw the most amazing Dharma thunderbolts. The ones that are aimed at others, I suppose, seem nonsensical to everyone else, but if you ever find yourself on the receiving end of one, the experience is the spiritual equivalent of being hit by a truck. He must have some background in Zen...


Sure, no offence was meant, I just did not understand what that post to which I reacted had to do with the topic. :D I am such a jerk sometimes.

And I´d like to add some more practitioners who inspire me:
Adriano Clemente, for his humble attitude, plus overall he is nice guy to be around:

http://www.ssi-austria.at/images/divers ... riano2.jpg

and Lama Inge, she is very sweet and very simple, yet profound practitioner:

http://blogchagdud.files.wordpress.com/ ... and-gr.jpg


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:55 am 
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muni wrote:
I add what I mean. Me is thaught by preferences, minds' clinging is only cheating ourselves.
The clinging to posts is a problem. Is it that what you mean? Then agree! "The clinging", not the phenomena, object! Then I see no qualities in worldly fame. Inspiration has no nationality.
What about dual buddhism, very sad indeed, it has no importance. Listen no need to sell rightenesses but just point to how me is told, genuine spiritual friends must not be seen through own ideas when we seek inspirations or connect with honest spiritual ones. Not to see all the wrong ones who need a lesson and the good ones who get my smile, as this is not buddhism for me. That is why I reacted here right now.

People are just talking about inspiring western practitioners for goodness sake. Relax, man! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:57 am 
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dumbbombu wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:
dumbbombu wrote:
Kevin Solway.

This is :offtopic: .
If you read carefully, we are talking about Western inspiring practitioners.

Kevin Solway is, obviously, a full fledged Buddha. So you can't count him in. He would make everyone else pale in comparison!Image


sorry, my bad!

You understood I was joking, right? :lol: As sometimes my English is not the best and as it's a known fact that humor not always passes through the way we want in written language, I'm just making sure... ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:03 am 
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he's not a fully fledged Buddha??

_________________
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith

oroka


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:42 am 
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dzoki wrote:
muni wrote:
Dharma..."western inspiration". What naked nature posses? What the moon posses? Nothing sensational, nothing. Possesive buddhism....

Moon is in water, no moon posses water. Water let come and go moon freely.


Dude, have you smoked pot or something?


does it not fit with your thinking?

i can understand muni la quite well.


Last edited by Heruka on Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:46 am 
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Clarence wrote:
Heruka wrote:
Clarence wrote:
Another good western practitioner is our very own homegrown Namdrol.


respectfully
you keep cheerleading jumping up and down for loppon, but you also say he has been blessed to teach dzogchen, can you make anymore claims in that regard, or can namdrol speak for himself?

thats pretty heavy stuff.


Let me tell you why I think Namdrol serves as an inspirational western practitioner:
He is a Loppon
He did a 3-year Lam Dre retreat
He is a Tibetan doctor
Kunzang Dechen Lingpa authorized him to teach Dzogchen (you might even find that if you search on E-sangha in archives.org). I think the fact that you didn't know this also speaks to his credit as it means he doesn't go about flaunting it.
He recently spoke of the wish to do another 3-year retreat focusing on Dzogchen, which, to me, indicates he continues to want to improve his practice.

Maybe I am easily satisfied, but all of that combined does it for me.

Now, does that mean I always agree with his way of delivery? No, not at all. But it would be a shame if he were to leave this board (hence my cheerleading).



well ok, i know namdrols bio, and certainly he has put much effort into this, respectfully im not poo pooing that, but you made claim about westerner teaching dzogchen, which is really quite extraordinary, which requires an extraordinary explanation.

fair enough?

can you provide link to this e sangha?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:48 am 
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About Namdrol: I also remember this on esangha (which is now defunct). KDL authorized him to impart Dzogchen teachings, you'd have to get the details straight from Malcolm.

Also Chagdud Tulkus's student, Lama Drimed Norbu is a westerner who is fully authorized to teach Dzogchen, including Togal.

s.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:15 am 
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Many are inspiring, no labels i can add, "too many".

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There is only nature and all is nature. Any discrimination is ones’ own delusion.


Last edited by muni on Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:26 am 
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we seem short on ladies on this list, so here's a few everyone should already know of:

Elizabeth Mattis Namgyal

Lama Dechen Yeshe Wangmo

Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo

Pema Chodron

Tsultrim Allione

Chagdud Khandro

Lama Tsering Everest

EDIT: Back to the OP though: I will look more into accounts of good signs at deaths of western practitioners-- there are certainly many that simply have not been publicized for various reasons...that said, the first generation of Westerners to really find Vajrayana Dharma in their own country and culture are for the most part still alive and kicking, with just a few kicking buckets now and then-- so if we gage results simply by signs at death then we don't have accurate data fields yet.. we should be able to know more in the next 10-20 years! Back to the cushions, impermanence is beckoning!

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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:10 pm 
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The lives of the practitioners are surely more vital and inspiring than their deaths.

And so we have Ms G. Constant Lounsbery, american buddhist who in 1929 founded Les Amis du Bouddhisme in Paris, and for many years financed its activities. Brought to Europe bhikkhus from SriLanka and elsewhere. Procured publication in french of many works on Buddhism. Ran yearly buddhist summer school at home in La Tourballe, Brittany. Author of Buddhist Meditation in the Southern School. It is also said that the inspiration for the founding of Les Amis du Bouddhisme was the chinese Master Tai Hsu.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:53 am 
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Adamantine....Can we add Lama Sherab Dolma to your list?

Aemilius...Yes, you are right. I think when I started the thread I'd recently read accounts of those two deaths I mentioned and was inspired by them. I hope the whole premise of the thread isn't too inauspicious.

I was remembering an American monk I spent some time with in Bir about ten years ago. He was called Dennis, aka Mad Monk.
Perhaps not such an inspirational practitioner in the text-book sense.
In fact there is a lovely story that Rabjam Rinpoche writes of in 'Brilliant Moon' about whaen Dennis built himself a retreat hut in Nepal but still carried on hanging out 'chai-shopping' in Boudha. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche used to remark jokingly to Dennis that his house was in retreat but he wasn't. Anyway, he then started his three year retreat and got bored after a year and just as he was thinking seriously to pack in his retreat he received a letter from Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche saying how pleased he was that he was now finally in retreat etc...giving Dennis no other option but to stay for the remaining two years.

He turned up to Bir on a motorbike with two Bhutanese girls riding pillion. I was studying in a monastery there at the time, cultivating and getting thoroughy attached to my image as a 'Dharma student' and was even more self righteous than I am now. So this guy who I then got to know really challenged some of my issues. There was I studying hard, trying to do the right thing and trying to appear all spiritual, being proud and everything. And here was Dennis, a monk of many years, just drinking tea and beer and hanging out and occasionally disappearing on his bike in a cloud of dust with two Bhutanese girls on the back.
And worse, from my point of view...all the great lamas loved him. he used to just go and hang out with them and stay with them. And there was I being all serous about the Dharma and they didn't even know me...

And as I got to know him, I began to see something, as he hung out all day, he treated everyone exactly the same. There was no pretense in him at all. He was very open about his shortcomings and, let's say, the challenges the vinaya brought to him. He was remarkably kind and gentle and patient. And it became clear that he had extraordinary faith in his lama, Trulshik Rinpoche.
And during the short time i knew him he melted alot of my icey and rigid views and pretences about what Dharma was really about. So, yeah, as I say, perhaps not an inspiring practitioner in the conventional/ text-book sense, but a very kind and honest and gentle man, with remarkable humility. Funnily enough he displayed
the qualities that we are told that a good practitioner should, and certainly to a greater degree that alot of the 'famous' practitioner I've met....

He died a few years ago. I was inspired by his authenticity.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:04 pm 
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MrDistracted wrote:
He was called Dennis, aka Mad Monk....


Great story, very inspiring! Thanks for sharing.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:58 pm 
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So much trouble in this thread over the "western" label. We are discussing the accomplishments of convert Buddhists, from whom we can take inspiration. Perhaps reconsidering the label will help take care of the mess :toilet: and let us focus on the important thing?

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